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Food for Thought

Author
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#1 - 2011-09-21 07:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
I'm neither advocating nor dissing this idea, it's just something I've heard bruite'd about more and more frequently in my travels through Internet-spaceship-land.

So.

Discuss, please:

Super-Capital-class ships should be banned from all 0.1+ rated systems.

The ones presently in empire low-sec systems would be "grandfathered in," IE allowed to stay in that system only so long as they don't jump out, and if they jump out, they'd only be allowed to jump to to zerosec. Once they jump, that's it, that ship lives the rest of its' life in zerosec.

FLAME ON!

(I figure, that if the 1337-PvP crowd wants to have it's blob-vs-blob fights and parade about the field in their iwinbuttons--"My SRS BZNS space-peenzor >>>> ur SRS BZNS space-peenzor!!"--then they should certainly be allowed to do so, just not in empire, where that amorphous mass known as "the rest of us"--that is, those who really can't be arsed to deal with the zerosec alliances' unending, grating bullshit--needn't have to worry about a mum-fleet being dropped on a 10-man BC gang. It's really not lol-worthy, it's just tedious.)

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-09-21 07:45:20 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
why anybody should care about 10-man BC gang being dropped by super-puper-cap-fleet? You organized gang, you went for fights, you got it. I would care about ganking solo pilot (miner, ratter, mission runner, traveler) by this 10-man BC gang instead. Which happens a lot more often.....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#3 - 2011-09-21 07:56:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
March rabbit wrote:
why anybody should care about 10-man BC gang being dropped by super-puper-cap-fleet? You organized gang, you went for fights, you got it. I would care about ganking solo pilot (miner, ratter, mission runner, traveler) by this 10-man BC gang instead. Which happens a lot more often.....


A halfway-competent/halfway-awake solo pilot can easily avoid/escape the 10-man BC gang, and if he's in the right ship, and the gang gets stupid, and maybe with a little bit of luck, then he might take one or two of them out, and get a great fight out of it, win or lose.

The 10-man BC gang can likewise escape the mom-drop with a bit of luck and/or insufficient support for the mom-gang--IE, not enough fast tackle--but the latter are essentially impossible to kill in empire, even if the pilots are stupid about it.

See the difference, Comrade?

One is the possibility of good PvP. The other is just ego-fluffing that just sucks the fun out of everything, kinda like what being in a nullsec alliance is like What?

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

whaynethepain
#4 - 2011-09-21 08:17:32 UTC
I think CCP is on the way to nerf the supa.

While we are on the subject, surely a Dread is small enough to use gates to get into 0.7 systems to POS bash, it is only the size of a Freighter after all.

Getting you on your feet.

So you've further to fall.

Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#5 - 2011-09-21 16:47:42 UTC
LMAO good one

March rabbit wrote:
You organized gang, you went for fights, you got it.

nom nom

Satav
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-09-21 18:09:17 UTC
whaynethepain wrote:
I think CCP is on the way to nerf the supa.

While we are on the subject, surely a Dread is small enough to use gates to get into 0.7 systems to POS bash, it is only the size of a Freighter after all.


haha, good one.

Also, as to the topic of thread. I get this feeling that you feel abuse and the poor oh little pirates of lowsec can't have anymore fun cause the big bad supers come in with an "i win" button.

Hmm interesting philosophy but false. No one said you had to fight the super, and as for a pos fight situation. poses aren't that expensive. and neither are triage carriers.

Eve isn't easy. Let's keep it that way.

There is always a counter to any fight.


"250 Hellcats inbound sir! They have us outmanned and outgunned. What are we going to do?" "catnip of course......."
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#7 - 2011-09-21 21:02:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Satav wrote:


[...]

Also, as to the topic of thread. I get this feeling that you feel abuse and the poor oh little pirates of lowsec can't have anymore fun cause the big bad supers come in with an "i win" button.

Eve isn't easy. Let's keep it that way.

There is always a counter to any fight.


"250 Hellcats inbound sir! They have us outmanned and outgunned. What are we going to do?" "catnip of course......."


Precisely.

Guess what: For the super-blob, EVE is easy-mode. About as easy as it gets.

How to make it hard for them, then?

Until/unless CCP develops a "heavy stealth-bomber"--IE, Tech II/Teir II BC chassis that can field Capital torpedo-launchers, optimised to fight/take down SC's, then that's how it will stay.

If even an unescorted SC gets jumped in lowsec, then all he really has to do is pull a logoffski, and 99.9% of the time, that 15 minutes won't be anywhere near long enough to kill him (ca. 36mn EHP for a pimped-out Nyx according to EFT, I misremember the exact number.).

Sounds like easy-mode to me.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

whaynethepain
#8 - 2011-09-21 23:02:38 UTC  |  Edited by: whaynethepain
The tec II drake, with citadel torps looks cool, but I'm thinking tec II raven, with more citadel torps, cov ops cloak and a huge bomb launcher, with bombs eight times a destructive area and power.

A small squad of these should be enough to cause mass log-off, within the ranks of the supa pilots, and arty hurricanes would have to be deployed to insta-pop them.

But then, what would be the point in getting a supa

Getting you on your feet.

So you've further to fall.

Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-09-22 01:06:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
whaynethepain wrote:
The tec II drake, with citadel torps looks cool, but I'm thinking tec II raven, with more citadel torps, cov ops cloak and a huge bomb launcher, with bombs eight times a destructive area and power.

A small squad of these should be enough to cause mass log-off, within the ranks of the supa pilots, and arty hurricanes would have to be deployed to insta-pop them.

But then, what would be the point in getting a supa


Agree with this. Supers would still have a point to take down big ships quickly, except that now they'd actually be counter-able through conventional means.

Basically, imagine a triangle like this:

Lots of Heavy Bombers > Moderately sized super fleet > Subcap/cap fleet > Heavy Bombers

Another decent change in addition to that would be to buff dreadnaught DPS so that there's a reason to use them over SCs, or improve the siege module so that they aren't dead as soon as they start shooting.

Hopefully, this will result in a more even spread of ships showing up to fleets (Supers to kill subcaps, H-Bombers to kill supers, Subcaps to kill H-Bombers) instead of just NYX, AEON, AVATAR, NYX, AEON, NYX, NYX, EREBUS, NYX.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-09-22 01:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
FML, a double post. Not used to having "Quote" on the left and "edit" on the right. Oops
Goose99
#11 - 2011-09-22 01:25:01 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
why anybody should care about 10-man BC gang being dropped by super-puper-cap-fleet? You organized gang, you went for fights, you got it. I would care about ganking solo pilot (miner, ratter, mission runner, traveler) by this 10-man BC gang instead. Which happens a lot more often.....


A halfway-competent/halfway-awake solo pilot can easily avoid/escape the 10-man BC gang, and if he's in the right ship, and the gang gets stupid, and maybe with a little bit of luck, then he might take one or two of them out, and get a great fight out of it, win or lose.

The 10-man BC gang can likewise escape the mom-drop with a bit of luck and/or insufficient support for the mom-gang--IE, not enough fast tackle--but the latter are essentially impossible to kill in empire, even if the pilots are stupid about it.

See the difference, Comrade?

One is the possibility of good PvP. The other is just ego-fluffing that just sucks the fun out of everything, kinda like what being in a nullsec alliance is like What?


Your 10 man bc gang ganking a solo miner/ratter/missioner/traveler is "good pvp."
Your 10 man bc gang getting ganked via hotdrop is "just ego-fluffing."

If you win by blobing, "it's good pvp."
If you're on the wrong side of the blob, it's "just ego-fluffing."

Grow some balls. Your throwaway bc is cheaper than both those miners and mission runners you gank, and the hotdrop that ganks you. Go back to single player game if you want to win all the time.Roll
Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-09-22 04:27:04 UTC
I kind of like this.

I mean... many of us in lowsec chose lowsec to avoid the blobs, overshipping, and massive capital fleets that infest 0.0.

I'm back!

Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-09-22 04:30:12 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
why anybody should care about 10-man BC gang being dropped by super-puper-cap-fleet? You organized gang, you went for fights, you got it. I would care about ganking solo pilot (miner, ratter, mission runner, traveler) by this 10-man BC gang instead. Which happens a lot more often.....


A halfway-competent/halfway-awake solo pilot can easily avoid/escape the 10-man BC gang, and if he's in the right ship, and the gang gets stupid, and maybe with a little bit of luck, then he might take one or two of them out, and get a great fight out of it, win or lose.

The 10-man BC gang can likewise escape the mom-drop with a bit of luck and/or insufficient support for the mom-gang--IE, not enough fast tackle--but the latter are essentially impossible to kill in empire, even if the pilots are stupid about it.

See the difference, Comrade?

One is the possibility of good PvP. The other is just ego-fluffing that just sucks the fun out of everything, kinda like what being in a nullsec alliance is like What?


Your 10 man bc gang ganking a solo miner/ratter/missioner/traveler is "good pvp."
Your 10 man bc gang getting ganked via hotdrop is "just ego-fluffing."

If you win by blobing, "it's good pvp."
If you're on the wrong side of the blob, it's "just ego-fluffing."

Grow some balls. Your throwaway bc is cheaper than both those miners and mission runners you gank, and the hotdrop that ganks you. Go back to single player game if you want to win all the time.Roll


Post with your main.... then we may take you seriously. But... probably not.

I'm back!

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#14 - 2011-09-22 07:17:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Goose99 wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
why anybody should care about 10-man BC gang being dropped by super-puper-cap-fleet? You organized gang, you went for fights, you got it. I would care about ganking solo pilot (miner, ratter, mission runner, traveler) by this 10-man BC gang instead. Which happens a lot more often.....


A halfway-competent/halfway-awake solo pilot can easily avoid/escape the 10-man BC gang, and if he's in the right ship, and the gang gets stupid, and maybe with a little bit of luck, then he might take one or two of them out, and get a great fight out of it, win or lose.

The 10-man BC gang can likewise escape the mom-drop with a bit of luck and/or insufficient support for the mom-gang--IE, not enough fast tackle--but the latter are essentially impossible to kill in empire, even if the pilots are stupid about it.

See the difference, Comrade?

One is the possibility of good PvP. The other is just ego-fluffing that just sucks the fun out of everything, kinda like what being in a nullsec alliance is like What?


Your 10 man bc gang ganking a solo miner/ratter/missioner/traveler is "good pvp."
Your 10 man bc gang getting ganked via hotdrop is "just ego-fluffing."

If you win by blobing, "it's good pvp."
If you're on the wrong side of the blob, it's "just ego-fluffing."

Grow some balls. Your throwaway bc is cheaper than both those miners and mission runners you gank, and the hotdrop that ganks you. Go back to single player game if you want to win all the time.Roll



Imbecile:

When did I ever say I thought ganking/blobbing is "good PvP?" The idea is to find a fight, not murder some lonely carebear.

Methinks the projection is strong in your ****-postTwisted

Post with your main, you coward, and then you can criticise others for a perceived (wrongly, I might add) lack of balls.

What's the matter, mate? The possibility--or bu now, maybe/hopefully I should say, near-certainity--of an SC nerf going to make all your grand botting efforts moot?

Whinging little punk, **** off.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Othran
Route One
#15 - 2011-09-22 07:34:18 UTC
It is quite hard to understand the rationale here.

Supercarriers cannot be built anywhere but sov null so why on earth are they allowed in Empire?

If they are allowed in Empire then the facilities to build them in Empire should exist.

If not then they should stay in null - same with titans too, a titan bridge into Empire is ridiculously overpowered.

NB - low-sec IS Empire for the terminally confused.
Usurpine
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2011-09-22 14:02:36 UTC
My answer to this is simply buff Dreadnoughts. Already mentioned by several others on several other threads.
Just repeating.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#17 - 2011-09-22 15:19:33 UTC
I guess there is some rational that if they can't be built in anything but sov space, but then do you allow them in Stain, or Curse? I think a more reasonable solution is to provide a way to counter them, but I worry that CCP will instead nerf them into being giant expensive paperweights before they would come up with something new to counter them, so some sort of dread boost seems reasonable, after all they are quite a bit more expensive then carriers these days but quite a bit less useful in most situations, so I am all for giving them more uses.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#18 - 2011-09-22 20:31:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Usurpine wrote:
My answer to this is simply buff Dreadnoughts. Already mentioned by several others on several other threads.
Just repeating.


The seige-cycle/mechanic would have to be totally re-invented, for starters--10min is way too long!

(Oh, and just by the bye, where are the capital-size neuts/NOS', smart-bombs, shield extenders, armour-plates, and prop-mods?)

That aside, though, the dreadnought class is baaaaaadly in need of some love, we all can agree there, I think.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Leeroy McJenkins
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2011-09-22 21:07:17 UTC
Othran wrote:
It is quite hard to understand the rationale here.

Supercarriers cannot be built anywhere but sov null so why on earth are they allowed in Empire?

If they are allowed in Empire then the facilities to build them in Empire should exist.

If not then they should stay in null - same with titans too, a titan bridge into Empire is ridiculously overpowered.

NB - low-sec IS Empire for the terminally confused.



Next lets have Concord in ALL of Empire, because it is empire right? The NPC should be able to police it the same way they police highsec, amirite? Blink

I Don't play EVE

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#20 - 2011-09-22 21:20:15 UTC
whaynethepain wrote:
The tec II drake, with citadel torps looks cool, but I'm thinking tec II raven, with more citadel torps, cov ops cloak and a huge bomb launcher, with bombs eight times a destructive area and power.

A small squad of these should be enough to cause mass log-off, within the ranks of the supa pilots, and arty hurricanes would have to be deployed to insta-pop them.

But then, what would be the point in getting a supa


Hmmmm....maybe it's just because I don't like BS' much, except as mission- and/or suicide-gank ships--I have terrible luck with them in PvP, always freakin' lose 'em, plus, the biggest thing for me, they're just no fun to fly--but I think the BC's mobility and lower signature radius would make that chassis better for this, whilst its' lower EHP would ensure it's not O/P, and also ensure that it would have to work as one part of a team (no solo pwn-mobiles here!).

In any case, the tier 2 BS chassis' tech II variant already has an explicit role, the Marauder, whereas the Tier 3 chassis--Rohk in the Caldari race's case--doesn't.

Also, either:

A) The new hull would need the ability to field an infini-point (scripted only in Empire, 'natch) to tackle the SC

or,

B) The existing HICTORs would need to get the ability to transit the covert jump-bridge to tackle the SCs

or yet,

C) With no other changes, the SC would have to be made "tackle-able" by standard warp-jamming modules.

I'd lean towards (B) or (C), as this would--theoretically, at least--keep the size of the gang needed lower (ca. 15 men, maximum).

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

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