Intergalactic Summit

Let me address the two strands of concern you expressed above. First, I have been out side the Hamrite estates and am aware that there are slave holders who are not functioning in the spirit and purpose of the reclaiming. That is my point afterall.

Second, it isn't a fallacy to point out those within our own society who violating upright principles. Let me give you an example. I have done quite a bit of work for the Theology Council. The agent I was lucky enough to end working for is a man of upstanding character and integrity. He consistently brought a spiritual approach to all the assignments he asked me to do and I never found myself being asked to do something that violated my conscience. On the other hand, I will avoid a certain Carthum agent, because her focus was Godless, trite, and greedy. It isn't a fallacy of reasoning to say that one is faithful and the other is not. We must do that our society will collapse into avarice. It isn't a fallacy of reasoning to say that slave-holders who ignore the call to reclaim are counterfeit.

Slave owners who are in it for financial or political reasons are not true Holders. What is fallacious about making that judgement?

I know enough to know that most of the discussion on this forum is intended to trap people in their words, so pardon me if I wonder if your question is sincere. But, I'll take the bate anyway. Would I take up arms, if I saw no other choice, to stop these holders? The short answer is YES. I would also follow the orders of the blessed Empress to take up arms for such a cause. She has already shown the courage to confront and prosecute those who refused to obey the decree. It is the Amarrians who must strive to keep the Amarrians true.

It is obvious that you think that the "Vitoxin Crowd" is the norm in the Empire. On that we must disagree. I believe that the norm is sincere and concerned that the reclaiming move forward as God desires it. You are entitled to your opinion, but those who do not share it are not by default, guilty of fallacy.

Have you ever bothered to ask the opinion of those whom you enslave?
not at the end of the brainwash but fresh slaves. Taken from their homes and lives.

You preach left and turn right.

Typical Amarr zealotery.

My crew get's well paid. They do the job because of the Isk they make from it.

As for the nickname "killer", it's easy to come up with theories as why I have said nickname, but I won't bother your blinded mind with it's background. It would be too elaborate for you to comprehend anyways.

You just keep on hiding your slavery behind excuses of god.

As for the Isk I gain in my pursuit for more Isk. This Isk is set forward to generate even more Isk. But by letting it go through various middlemen and women it also generates an income for them.
They use their income to generate more income for themselves aswel and as such they also help others to gain more.
All in all it betters more people's quality of life.

I don't oppress my crew, they are employed of own free will.
Can you claim the same for your slaves? Did they come under your influence under free will?

Your analogy of the child running towards the edge of a cliff is a cute one, but we both know it's just another metaphore used by you and your kind to have their own way with someone elses life and freedom.
You obey a god and with that you do have an interesting group gathered around you, but the Isk I follow has a wider spread than your god.
Isk influences everyones life whereas your god only can increase his influence by oppressing other people's free will.

You say that holders provide the best care for those in their possession, even at their own expense.

But have you ever bothered to ask them if they would rather life in dire needs but in freedom rather than in luxury and caged?
Ofcourse you haven't.
Just look at wild animal that got caged and kept in a zoo.
They get the best of care and their "owners" have their best intrest at heart for them.
Yet look at the eyes of said animals and see their fire, passion and some might even call it a soul, fade away out of their eyes over the years in captivity.
You are not that differet when you "hold" people. The fire and passion of their life, the very souls you claim to care for extinguish by your socalled good intentions.

I for one rather life a day in freedom than 100 years in captivity and I am sure a lot of your property feels the same. But surely enough you have yet another analogy to excuse your actions in that.

You say I will likely continue to judge you and others like you on the basis of my own moral bankrupcy. But aren't you just forcing your own morals onto others aswel?
Where is the difference between you and me? Maybe the sole difference is that those who follow me do so by free will.
But how can you understand the concept of free will if you yourself have never grasped the basics of that.

I pitty you and the small narrow vision you exsist in.

Moral bankruptcy -- that's rich.

Whether or not you, personally, use Vitoxin, it is still in use in the Empire. You've admitted as much yourself.

I'll say that again for clarity:

The Empire that you serve uses poison to ensure loyalty.

And yet somehow, Gandry is the one that's morally bankrupt? Isn't there something about 'casting stones' in that holy book of yours, Captain Cresthill?

There is a simple fallacy often used in argumentation. The previous 3 angry men and one angry woman have repeated that fallacy again and again. It is the claim that if one person in group is guilty of something, the whole group is guilty. It would be similar to saying that since some Sebiestors engage in slave trading in Minmatar space then the Minmatar Republic is guilty of illegal slave trade or the Minmatar Republic is a slave trading republic. Now this is the way you all are arguing. If you want to apply your reasoning across the board then apply it yourself as well.

In the meantime, while you seethe in your anger and bitterness, our Hamrite communities will thrive. Men and women will grow in the faith and become productive citizens when they are emancipated.

Andreus, what do you know about soul? Your's is lost
Killer, you judge the souls of those in our Hamrite communities as if they are so small and insignificant that need you to defend them from what you perceive me to be. How would they feel about your condescending attitude?
Khan, if you paid attention you would know that I don't brag about my skills. I know I am a new pilot and I have acknowledged that.
Finally, Ms Underking, someone poisoned you. Amarr did not poison you anymore than the whole republic is guilty of what some in the republic are guilty of.

If you all experience Gestalt by venting on me then vent on.

Well spoken. But I think you need to learn to count. Or are you secretly 3 men and 1 woman in one person?
It would explain certain things though.



You evade questions asked by diverting to other parts and even mingling people into comments they never made.



Ah, point towards the splinter in the other persons eye while ignoring the beam in your own eye. How typical Amarr zealot.



Basicly you are harvesting people and brainwashing them into serves to the Amarr empire. And nothing serves more and has less questions than a religious biggot.
You measure yourselves a role which always gives you the right to do as you please so you always have something to hide behind.
Because if you were ever to see the walls of illusions and lies shattered you would see that you are far worse than me.



Ah well, since to assume you can judge me I can judge you just aswel.
Although I don't judge you. I give you my opinion of your value and the value of the beliefs you hold so dear.

Your real judgement will come on the day your faith doesn't shroud you anymore from your deeds. Till then remain in ignorant bliss if that's what keeps you motivated to do what you do.

But be warned. Your faith might be not enough anymore sooner than you think.

What? Who told you that?

Developed?: Vitoxin was a joint development of the Caldari State and the Jovians
Legalized?: The law is silent regarding vitoxin, but the Hamrites have always lobbied for laws against its use.
Authorized?: Allowed and authorized are not the same. For example, the Gallente Federation allows the sale of slaves and the taxation of those sales by SCC. Does that mean that the Gallente Federation Authorizes the sale of slaves within the Federation?

These are excerpts from a Republic Security Services document, released two years ago under Parlimentary authorisation:





You may not use Vitoxin, Cresthill, but it is being used. Current estimates put the number of Vitoxin victims at several billion people.

You can play innocent all you like, but your government authorized the use of Vitoxin, your Holders employ it, and your scientists are responsible for its spread.

Do you know just what Vitoxin does to a person? Liver and kidney failure, seizures, pulmonary oedema, muscular atrophy, short-term memory impairment, delirium, lung scarification, damage to the heart muscles, fever, respiratory collapse, and all of it occurring within two weeks' time.

It's interesting to see that, for all its protestations of 'concern for the unsaved', the Empire seems to take an intense interest in finding ways to kill as many as they can, in as slow and painful a way as possible.

The effects of Vitoxin might be some of them most well studied biological facts in the cluster.

There are no shortage of victims, after all.