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Warning Forums are going to Explode. New Dev Blog on Skill Training and Ship Balance.

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stoicfaux
#81 - 2012-03-06 23:01:15 UTC
CP Ytterbium clarified a few important bits: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=900335#post900335

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#82 - 2012-03-06 23:10:02 UTC
I didn't want to make a real comment until I went over that blog a few times to be sure I understood it properly.

My conclusion is this: This is how it should have been since the beginning. It's a logical, straight forward progression that is intuitive and makes perfect sense.

Will it be a messy transition? No doubt.
Do they need to spend some time making it fair to all? Absolutely
Does the reallocation of SP or simply giving SP need to be handled with great tact and diplomacy? **** yeah.

But all that aside. And once the furor dies down. I think most will appreciate that this just feels right and is the way it should have always been.

Mr Epeen Cool
Rei Seiji
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2012-03-06 23:50:12 UTC
I rather like the theory of it, especially the removal of the tier system. It is rather annoying having a variety of ships, and yet only seeing the same ones flown over and over again because while ship a is pretty nice, for 10% more isk you could fly one that's much much better.
Flex Carter
Caldari Independant Mining Association
#84 - 2012-03-07 00:07:50 UTC
If we’ve already “maxed” out training in skills such as cruiser, battlecruiser, command ship, battleship and/or any of the capitals, are we going to be required to rob from Peter to give to Paul now (just so they can add another skill or two)…

Sure, they will give us some skill points but will it be enough to still have 5’s across the board? I’m not sure if anyone has considered this but what about our shipfits that required level 5 just to even fit the damn thing properly?

CCP Soundwave wrote:
No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.


Just because I’ll be able to fly it at level 3 or 4 after the change Mr. Peabody doesn’t mean it’s the same as me flying it at level 5 now… Reallocating skillpoints to fix something that should've been considered from the get-go, without complete compensation, is just another time sink…geez
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#85 - 2012-03-07 00:12:15 UTC
Flex Carter wrote:
If we’ve already “maxed” out training in skills such as cruiser, battlecruiser, command ship, battleship and/or any of the capitals, are we going to be required to rob from Peter to give to Paul now (just so they can add another skill or two)…

Sure, they will give us some skill points but will it be enough to still have 5’s across the board? I’m not sure if anyone has considered this but what about our shipfits that required level 5 just to even fit the damn thing properly?

CCP Soundwave wrote:
No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.


Just because I’ll be able to fly it at level 3 or 4 after the change Mr. Peabody doesn’t mean it’s the same as me flying it at level 5 now… Reallocating skillpoints to fix something that should've been considered from the get-go, without complete compensation, is just another time sink…geez


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=900335#post900335

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#86 - 2012-03-07 00:14:12 UTC
Flex Carter wrote:
If we’ve already “maxed” out training in skills such as cruiser, battlecruiser, command ship, battleship and/or any of the capitals, are we going to be required to rob from Peter to give to Paul now (just so they can add another skill or two)…

Sure, they will give us some skill points but will it be enough to still have 5’s across the board? I’m not sure if anyone has considered this but what about our shipfits that required level 5 just to even fit the damn thing properly?

CCP Soundwave wrote:
No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.


Just because I’ll be able to fly it at level 3 or 4 after the change Mr. Peabody doesn’t mean it’s the same as me flying it at level 5 now… Reallocating skillpoints to fix something that should've been considered from the get-go, without complete compensation, is just another time sink…geez


If you currently have maxed frig cruiser BS., my take is they will give you Dessie 4 and BC 4. If you have all them maxed you get ****. They need to go into more detail of exactly what they intend, but some pilots will end up coming out golden and others won't. EVE is a harsh, cold...well...you know.

Mr Epeen Cool
Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-03-07 00:27:56 UTC
Meh, Skills are skills... Training time is merely an inconvenience.

"That is why we want to remove ship tiers altogether, then refocus our balancing philosophy to be based on role. That means finding common themes, or lines that fit ships with the same purpose, then adjusting slot layout, HP and fittings within each class to support this goal."

This is the most important thing in the dev blog, imo. Long overdue, and will breath new life back into a helluva lot of ships if they can pull it off.

Here's hoping.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#88 - 2012-03-07 00:29:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Mr Epeen wrote:
I didn't want to make a real comment until I went over that blog a few times to be sure I understood it properly.

My conclusion is this: This is how it should have been since the beginning. It's a logical, straight forward progression that is intuitive and makes perfect sense.

Will it be a messy transition? No doubt.
Do they need to spend some time making it fair to all? Absolutely
Does the reallocation of SP or simply giving SP need to be handled with great tact and diplomacy? **** yeah.

But all that aside. And once the furor dies down. I think most will appreciate that this just feels right and is the way it should have always been.

Mr Epeen Cool

I agree with all of this completely... but just to be clear "messy transition" is an understatement. I've been thinking all day about how to automate SP reallocation or SP reassignment to new skills... that automation will be important because there are more than a few characters on the server and a petition for each seems a bit much for the GMs. There are too many dependent skill variables for me to make it work in my head (granted, my brain is still on DOS 3.2). I agree that it will probably be better for the game to streamline it, but as for getting from here to there without a bucket of tears and a sore a**... well GL to CCP. I genuinely mean that. It's going to be a complex hassle and there will be a lot of broken hearts.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Flex Carter
Caldari Independant Mining Association
#89 - 2012-03-07 00:32:35 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Flex Carter wrote:
If we’ve already “maxed” out training in skills such as cruiser, battlecruiser, command ship, battleship and/or any of the capitals, are we going to be required to rob from Peter to give to Paul now (just so they can add another skill or two)…

Sure, they will give us some skill points but will it be enough to still have 5’s across the board? I’m not sure if anyone has considered this but what about our shipfits that required level 5 just to even fit the damn thing properly?

CCP Soundwave wrote:
No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.


Just because I’ll be able to fly it at level 3 or 4 after the change Mr. Peabody doesn’t mean it’s the same as me flying it at level 5 now… Reallocating skillpoints to fix something that should've been considered from the get-go, without complete compensation, is just another time sink…geez


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=900335#post900335


CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Ok this thread needs some love now.


SKILLS:

[list]
  • Destroyer and Battlecruiser reimbursement: it has been said before, but allow us to repeat again, that we do not want to cut ships you can already fly. Thus, having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5..

    • Thanks Steve Ronuken, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. I'm good now...
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #90 - 2012-03-07 00:36:55 UTC
    I'm cool with this.
    Buzzmong
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #91 - 2012-03-07 00:37:52 UTC
    Masamune Dekoro wrote:
    Meh, Skills are skills... Training time is merely an inconvenience.

    "That is why we want to remove ship tiers altogether, then refocus our balancing philosophy to be based on role. That means finding common themes, or lines that fit ships with the same purpose, then adjusting slot layout, HP and fittings within each class to support this goal."

    This is the most important thing in the dev blog, imo. Long overdue, and will breath new life back into a helluva lot of ships if they can pull it off.

    Here's hoping.


    Some of us have been asking for tiericide for ages. Glad it's finally happening. Hopefully it will mean half the T1 ships are no longer useless.
    Dumgard
    Sigma Dynamics
    Pillars of Liberty
    #92 - 2012-03-07 00:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dumgard
    Are you serious, CCP?

    The only way this could be even remotely fair is if you give all current characters all four racial skills at the current level of their Battlecruisers skill, regardless of if they only have one or two racial cruiser skills trained.
    Nephilius
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #93 - 2012-03-07 00:54:48 UTC
    Hanakar wrote:
    If this goes live, they just need to reset everyone's skill points and let us decide how to respend it.


    I'm down for this.
    "If."
    Ayuren Aakiwa
    Shadow Legion X
    Seriously Suspicious
    #94 - 2012-03-07 00:55:48 UTC
    This is a good idea, besides the whole capital ships thing...
    Aqriue
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #95 - 2012-03-07 01:24:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Aqriue
    Good reason to get into a cap quicker

    Holding alt for another account.

    *watches walls get sucked in from the massive intake of breath*

    Yes, thats a good reason. Cause now CCP will make more money with people making secondary accounts to hold cap ships while the main still flys around until the cap is needed. You don't need perfect skills to sit in one, just use it in combat. Which makes for other people who don't fly caps able to steal them easier, then jump out and log until its sold/transfered/what ever. Oh wait...seems to go in a good direction any way you look at it Twisted. Only a tool flys a cap with crap skills, his alliance is full of idiots for not checking to see its not properly skilled, and the bad guys...don't ******* care cause it just pads the KB.
    Sasha Azala
    Doomheim
    #96 - 2012-03-07 01:43:25 UTC
    Doc Severide wrote:
    Having generic Battle Cruiser and Destroyer Skills always seemed wrong with every other ships having racial I-V... But I really don't care in the long run...




    I think it's a bad idea where this is concerned, it means that it'll take longer to get into a BS for starters, it takes long enough when you consider all the other skills you need as well. So I don't see the point making it longer.

    I don't see any reason to split destroyers and BCs up after all they're only really larger frigates and cruisers. It's just adding training for the sake of training.

    Like a lot of others I also don't see the point of shortening the time to get into capitals.



    Making the ships more useful is one thing, but making it longer to train for some smaller ships is pointless.


    Reducing what's available to use ingame by increasing the time to use them is the wrong way to go, especially with BS and smaller ships.
    Digital Messiah
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #97 - 2012-03-07 01:53:54 UTC
    Giving roles to lower tier ships, reworking and balancing ships, adding new specializations, and breathing new life into this old universe! I can't see anything wrong here.

    For those worried about the skill reimbursement. Think of how much better the game will be after everything is said and done? I am to lazy to do any theory crafting on how much sp will need to be dished out to make this work. But not so much that it will break the game.

    Something clever
    Keen Fallsword
    Skyway Patrol
    #98 - 2012-03-07 02:30:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Keen Fallsword
    AT FIRST PLACE CCP YOU SHOULD MAKE ALL RACES PLAYABLE !!!! YOU HAVE SO UNBALNACED RACES AND WANT TO MAKE THIS GAME EVEN WORST ?

    YOU ARE REBALANCING GALLENTE (and you cant even done this fu...ing simple thing) AND THEY STILL SUCKS. AND NOW YOU WANT ADD RACIALS SKILLS ??? THINK YOU MORRONS !!!


    You cant balance this game as it is now and you just started another stupid idea ... you are stupid ...

    I will quit this game if this happen. F U Very Much

    no comments ....
    Mr Epeen
    It's All About Me
    #99 - 2012-03-07 02:35:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
    Keen Fallsword wrote:
    YOU WANT ADD RACIALS SKILLS ??? THINK YOU MORRONS !!!


    Humor?

    Or irony?

    vOv

    Mr Epeen Cool
    Shogun Archer
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #100 - 2012-03-07 02:40:57 UTC
    Keen Fallsword wrote:


    I will quit this game if this happen. F U Very Much

    no comments ....



    Oh the power the whiners wield. This is a new tactic...

    If you run into more than 2 a**holes in a day, you should probably look in the mirror.