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Unannounced Crucible Change to Security Status mechanism - request for CSM views

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Mane Frehm
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#1 - 2012-03-06 22:52:54 UTC
Please see https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70607&p=14 and

http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?5658-Change-in-Security-Status-Mechanism-Ratting

tl;dr - there was an unannounced change to the security status mechanism in Crucible such that only the player who "laid the final blow on a rat" gets the security status increase. Previously, all players who shot the rat received the full increase, using the same model as in a PvP kill where all players take the security status hit. Group roams to rat for security status have been badly impacted. In addition, not only was the change unannounced to players, it appears other CCP staff such as the GMs were not advised of the change.

A few questions for the candidates:

1. What is your view on changes like this that make maintaining security status even more difficult than previously?
2. Shouldn't the mechanism for gaining/losing security status be the same whether engaged in PvP or PvE?
3. Should CCP be advising their players (and their staff) of planned changes like this that affect gameplay?

Thanx - I look forward to your responses.
PsychoBitch
Playboy Enterprises
Dark Taboo
#2 - 2012-03-06 22:57:23 UTC
THAT IS COMPLETE AND UTTER FAIL!

I shall gut CCP for you!

Seriously, I'll get them to change it back.
Jon Marburg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-03-07 00:12:49 UTC
The sec status system really needs to get an overhaul. There is no reason that any mechanic in a mmo should discourage player cooperation.
Mane Frehm
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2012-03-07 14:25:44 UTC
Still looking for candidate responses. I've heard from Trebor; others?
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#5 - 2012-03-07 15:24:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Seleene
Editing.. Smile

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Mane Frehm
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2012-03-08 15:29:58 UTC
Fascinating and all that but......go buy your own thread, m8.

Still looking for candidate responses to these questions.
corebloodbrothers
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-03-08 15:44:02 UTC
sec stat updates once every 15 minutes. The highest count increases your status. So wether u shoot 20 npc bs or 1 in that 15 minutes, doesnt matter. still the same change.

Sharing means u would only get a part of 1. So the current mechanism makes u gain sec quicker in most cases actually.

most people that want to improve sec jump through a gate afther killing 1 rat, so that the 15 min counter resets and repeat it.


but yes as a candidate, i didnt know this change i have to admit. But it doesnt seem to be horrible towards the sec part. As long as u know, u can make better use of this.

greetz corebloodbrothers, CSM7 candidate
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#8 - 2012-03-08 20:04:31 UTC
Mane Frehm wrote:
Please see https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=70607&p=14 and

http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?5658-Change-in-Security-Status-Mechanism-Ratting

tl;dr - there was an unannounced change to the security status mechanism in Crucible such that only the player who "laid the final blow on a rat" gets the security status increase. Previously, all players who shot the rat received the full increase, using the same model as in a PvP kill where all players take the security status hit. Group roams to rat for security status have been badly impacted. In addition, not only was the change unannounced to players, it appears other CCP staff such as the GMs were not advised of the change.

A few questions for the candidates:

1. What is your view on changes like this that make maintaining security status even more difficult than previously?
2. Shouldn't the mechanism for gaining/losing security status be the same whether engaged in PvP or PvE?
3. Should CCP be advising their players (and their staff) of planned changes like this that affect gameplay?

Thanx - I look forward to your responses.


I have two comments.

1. Changes in fundamental game mechanics should never be "stealth-ed in" like this appears to be.
2. The entire sec status mechanism and aggression mechanisms need a review and likely multiple changes.

Sorry to have taken so long to answer.

Issler
Sverige Pahis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-03-08 20:06:41 UTC
Way to completely avoid the question. Maybe if you'd ever been in 0.0 you'd know what his problem actually is.
Mane Frehm
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2012-03-08 21:53:00 UTC
Sverige - not helpful in any way. You could have said something like:

Issler - agree that the whole mechanism needs to be reviewed, but you haven't really addressed the specific question of "should maintaining security status be made more difficult"?


and while I'm at it:

Corebloodbrothers - Really? Your response shows you failed to read the questions and don't understand the concern. Yes you only get 1 sec status bump every 15 minutes no matter how many you kill in that system, but prior to this change EVERYONE who shot the rat got the full security status increase. The change does not make it better for anyone in any possible way, although for solo ratting it didnt get any worse.

and Psychobitch - sounds great (sarcasm alert). Tell me how you're going to get them to change it back.


Still looking for more candidate views.
Elanor Vega
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-03-08 22:25:12 UTC
This is not changed in crucible.
This is for some time now.
There have been threads from few different ppl about this before.
And i don't see anything bad in it. (Why would all get full sec status increase - that's against logic.)
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#12 - 2012-03-09 01:16:03 UTC
Sverige Pahis wrote:
Way to completely avoid the question. Maybe if you'd ever been in 0.0 you'd know what his problem actually is.


Lived in Syndicate for a year, so I've lived in null. Yes, I know how this makes grinding your sec status up harder, my solution is just keep a postitive sec status! P Also, other than grinding back you sec to positive after misbehaving in the rest of Eve null is the place where the sec status matters least.

Issler
Vanessa Serenity
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-03-10 13:36:28 UTC
I would like to add yet another view on the Security Status.

"quick background"
When I started playing EVE I found the possibility to be able to advance in a game without having to kill everything I see around every corner to be fascinating. So I decided to take an oath to do no harm (helping others to do harm not included). I have specialized in support ships, command ships and covert ops and have not fired a single round of ammo to this day.

Recently I came across an agent for Blood Raiders on my sneaky trips through null-sec. I was offered an important storyline mission which asked for 20 Malachite Cytoserocin. Since it did not involve killing I just had to complete it.

"the problem"
Upon completion I realized my security status had dropped down to -0.04.
My security status does not rise when I aid others to kill rats and I can not do missions to increase my security status either.

I would really like to see some way of increasing security status without having to kill.
Mar'na Taroon'la
Remanaquie Federation
#14 - 2012-03-10 17:10:40 UTC
Wasn't this changed mentioned on some devblog or maybe some release notes of some patch a few weeks ago. I think I remember reading about it and truth is, this change isn't news for me so I know I read it somewhere because I don't use crystal balls...
Andrea Griffin
#15 - 2012-03-10 17:47:43 UTC
Do the crime, do the time. I don't say this as a carebear either.

That said, this is a change that should have been announced in patch notes at some point. If it was I certainly missed it.

In any case I'm sure that it wasn't hidden from us on purpose, probably just one of those things that was overlooked and slipped through the cracks. That happens - those of you who work in software will know exactly what I'm talking about. When you have hundreds of changes to track it is easy for one or two of them to get dropped by accident.

Ooopsies!

I do wonder about the reasoning behind the change though, and if it was intentional or accidental or as a consequence of some other change.

Anyway... There's a reason why you have 3 character slots on each account. One for marketeering, one for highsec carebearing, and one for criminal activity. : >

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.