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Nerf AFK cloakers
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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#121 - 2012-03-06 14:15:57 UTC
who says the cloaker isn't actively watching you, moving your convo requests out of the way and waiting for the right moment?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Asudem
Black Spear.
#122 - 2012-03-06 15:21:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Asudem
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:

You cant read

...

Where is risk for afk cloaker where in reward he generate blurred intel ??


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-thkLITCptZA/TZHkCDZ5utI/AAAAAAAACnM/2lhHBOdCLpo/s1600/facepalm_implied.jpg

Lets just hope we wont meet in local...
L0rdF1end
Tactical Grace.
Vanguard.
#123 - 2012-03-06 15:23:37 UTC
Quite simply, whether you are arguing to have the ability to AFK cloak or not CCP do plan to do something about it.

The likelyhood is that there will be a ship developed to hunt cloakers.
As long as this isnt game breaking and has a high difficulty tied to finding the cloaker I'm all for it.

It would have to be designed so you can only find AFK claokers (cloakers sitting in one spot for a large portion of time).

I see this happening, it's just a case of when.

This fixes the issue, because if the cloaker is active, he can warp around and avoid getting found, if he isn't active then it's fair game to have some form of ability to track him down and kill.

Fix it CCP.

TY.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#124 - 2012-03-06 15:29:01 UTC
Quote:
It would have to be designed so you can only find AFK claokers (cloakers sitting in one spot for a large portion of time).




Cloak go to save spot turn your ship to the vast nothingness that is space double click and you are constantly moving, go eat that Pizza.
CaleAdaire
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#125 - 2012-03-06 15:39:04 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
The problem nobody seems to understand is that just because he is called an "AFK cloaker" doesn't mean he is.
No, everyone understands that.

What we don't understand is why people are so pathologically incapable of protecting themselves in spite of all the tools at their disposal, that a single name in local is enough to send them running for the hills. The AFK cloaker can't do anything — the “victim” is the only one doing anything and if he doesn't like what he's doing, he can simply stop doing it.

Quote:
This illusion of a threat whether it is real or not is still done while AFK and yeilds an advantage in that you are preventing others from safely ratting.
No. What's preventing those people from ratting safely (and we're skipping past the part where I ask you why on earth they should be free to do that) is that they refuse to create any safety for themselves. The AFK cloaker is not a factor in that lack of safety — it's all down to the incompetence of the ratter.

AFK cloaking is not a problem. Ratters' unwillingness to solve their own insecurity is a problem. This is why the ultimate solution to “AFK cloaking” — the removal of local — is so antithetical to the wishes of those ratters, even though it should be right up their alley.

JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
Yes it is especially dangerous for the cloaker.
Yes it is. In particular, if it's not dangerous for the cloaker, then it's completely safe for the ratter too, so he has zero grounds for complaining.


Tippia i am surprised you are so dense.

You cant die to afk cloaker since he is afk so your entire argument is moot. I dont mind people dying to active clockers.

But you cant make a difference between afk and active one the problem arises when afk cloaker goes out for pizza and has possibility to influence a game via generation of false intel with 100% immunity.

Stop projecting your own beliefs and use your brain for a moment. People have to sacrifice their resources for someone who may not even be at their keyboard.

If they aren't at the keyboard, then run sites!

Trust in God, Have Faith in Fusion.
Asudem
Black Spear.
#126 - 2012-03-06 15:43:15 UTC
L0rdF1end wrote:
Quite simply, whether you are arguing to have the ability to AFK cloak or not CCP do plan to do something about it.

The likelyhood is that there will be a ship developed to hunt cloakers.
As long as this isnt game breaking and has a high difficulty tied to finding the cloaker I'm all for it.

It would have to be designed so you can only find AFK claokers (cloakers sitting in one spot for a large portion of time).

I see this happening, it's just a case of when.

This fixes the issue, because if the cloaker is active, he can warp around and avoid getting found, if he isn't active then it's fair game to have some form of ability to track him down and kill.

Fix it CCP.

TY.


You can provide us the source of it?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#127 - 2012-03-06 15:46:44 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
Quote:
It would have to be designed so you can only find AFK claokers (cloakers sitting in one spot for a large portion of time).




Cloak go to save spot turn your ship to the vast nothingness that is space double click and you are constantly moving, go eat that Pizza.


Do NOT nerf my pizza eating, darn it!

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Mag's
Azn Empire
#128 - 2012-03-06 16:03:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Asudem wrote:
L0rdF1end wrote:
Quite simply, whether you are arguing to have the ability to AFK cloak or not CCP do plan to do something about it.

The likelyhood is that there will be a ship developed to hunt cloakers.
As long as this isnt game breaking and has a high difficulty tied to finding the cloaker I'm all for it.

It would have to be designed so you can only find AFK claokers (cloakers sitting in one spot for a large portion of time).

I see this happening, it's just a case of when.

This fixes the issue, because if the cloaker is active, he can warp around and avoid getting found, if he isn't active then it's fair game to have some form of ability to track him down and kill.

Fix it CCP.

TY.


You can provide us the source of it?
He may be referring to this sentence:

CSM_CCP_Meetings_7-9_12_2011.pdf wrote:
Cloak Hunters: CCP brought up the possibility of a future cloak-hunting ship or mechanic as a
hypothetical; this was described as ‘more like finding a submarine than pulling a blanket off’ a
cloaked ship. The CSM was cautiously positive about the idea of a cloak-hunting vessel of some kind.


So he's taken the words "possibility" and "hypothetical" construed them as meaning it's going to happen and it's a cure for AFKing.

Edit: Oh yes, CCP has spelt meetings wrong in the link.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Asudem
Black Spear.
#129 - 2012-03-06 16:12:44 UTC
Well, sounds good. Thanks.
Hans Momaki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#130 - 2012-03-06 16:24:10 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Generating false intel is not a reward, and either way, being AFK is unrelated to both.


Sorry, but erm.... AFK - cloaking is used as a strategic tool. It's generating a potential harm to dwellers in their system, which means in return, they lose their earned safety, and have to draw resources (i.e. manpower) from making money to defend against a "might be a cyno" to be safe again.

It wouldn't be a problem if a player got flagged afk, but at the moment, you can't spot a difference between afk or not, which means that you either have to stop your activity (especially as a miner) or you have to use your manpower to protect your system (which means you can't make money in the meantime). Due to this circumstances, the so called AFK-Cloaking is a threat you can do **** about.

Hope this helps understanding this issue.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#131 - 2012-03-06 16:36:14 UTC
Thanks to client and chat logs, you can gather quite a bit of intel without interacting with the client.

Sure, I'm "AFK" :)

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Chatha Gathii
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#132 - 2012-03-06 17:36:27 UTC
Mag's wrote:
]He may be referring to this sentence:

CSM_CCP_Meetings_7-9_12_2011.pdf wrote:
Cloak Hunters: CCP brought up the possibility of a future cloak-hunting ship or mechanic as a
hypothetical; this was described as ‘more like finding a submarine than pulling a blanket off’ a
cloaked ship. The CSM was cautiously positive about the idea of a cloak-hunting vessel of some kind.


So he's taken the words "possibility" and "hypothetical" construed them as meaning it's going to happen and it's a cure for AFKing.

Edit: Oh yes, CCP has spelt meetings wrong in the link.
New ships are always cool and a submarine hunt mechanic could be Fun Gameplay if done right - though it kind of already exists with scan probes for those who are looking for that kind of fun.

But as it stands, it seems as if this new ship and mechanic would cater to a pretty small demographic.

It's pointless in high-sec and low-sec. And even in null, I doubt that a large proportion of the population are living in panic due to the scourge of AFK cloakers.

So a few of these new ships would get sold to renter corps (at extortionate prices, because those kinds of people have big "Extort Me" signs hanging on their backs), and probably spend most of their time docked until the Bad Man shows up and outsmarts them anyway.

Doesn't seem like it would justify the dev time unless accompanied by a major rethink of the incentives and mechanics for cloaking.
Zela Terran
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2012-03-06 17:56:40 UTC
I'm going to afk cloak at your cyno generator. Don't worry, I'm afk and pose no threat Big smile
Packe
Interstellar eXodus
#134 - 2012-03-06 18:10:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Packe
There are many counters to AFK cloakers, unless, of course, you are an AFK ratter.
Anshio Tamark
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#135 - 2012-03-06 18:43:58 UTC
Is it just me or is it amazing how many times the same bad idea can be posted before people learn to search the forums for over-used topics? There's nothing wrong with cloaking. It works as intended (unlike many other features and mechanics in EVE). If you hate AFK-cloakers that much, find out what corp he belongs to and send an alt into that corp's systems and cloak there. You'll give them the same medicine as they give you, and if you're lucky, they'll see just how annoying it is and stop doing it themselves...

Or they might be annoyed with you and hot-drop a dozen Super Capitals on top of you. Either one will get the problem solved, really. Either they'll stop AFK cloaking, or they'll send a lot of virtually indestructible ships to send you back to High-sec where you don't have to fear AFK-cloakers.

And besides, what is the difference between sitting cloaked in space for hours and sitting docked in a different station than the one you use for hours? Easy. Not big.

I don't know how many times this has been said to "Nerf AFK cloaking"-threads, but I'll repeat it anyway: "No." CCP has more important things to worry about than your fear of doing anything with others in the system. With that mentality, I'm actually surprised you ever got out of your starter-system. It doesn't matter where you are. Even if you're right outside of CONCORD's headquarters in Yulai, if someone decides to pop your ship, CONCORD won't come to save you before it's too late (Funny fact: Yulai's sec-level is only 0.9, not 1.0 as one would expect. This gives people approximately 5-10 seconds to kill you before CONCORD will show up).
Mag's
Azn Empire
#136 - 2012-03-06 19:17:47 UTC
Hans Momaki wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Generating false intel is not a reward, and either way, being AFK is unrelated to both.


Sorry, but erm.... AFK - cloaking is used as a strategic tool. It's generating a potential harm to dwellers in their system, which means in return, they lose their earned safety, and have to draw resources (i.e. manpower) from making money to defend against a "might be a cyno" to be safe again.

It wouldn't be a problem if a player got flagged afk, but at the moment, you can't spot a difference between afk or not, which means that you either have to stop your activity (especially as a miner) or you have to use your manpower to protect your system (which means you can't make money in the meantime). Due to this circumstances, the so called AFK-Cloaking is a threat you can do **** about.

Hope this helps understanding this issue.

Yes it's a tool, but here's the rub. Local intel is a guarantee, whereas the psychological effects from AFKing are not. Because for the effect to work, the persons the AFKer hopes to affect, need to act upon their fears.

Also cynos are unrelated, even though people like yourself try to include them in an AFK debate. If you have an issue with the cyno mechanic, then start a thread about it.

Hope that helps you understand this none issue.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Hans Momaki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#137 - 2012-03-07 07:19:27 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Hans Momaki wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Generating false intel is not a reward, and either way, being AFK is unrelated to both.


Sorry, but erm.... AFK - cloaking is used as a strategic tool. It's generating a potential harm to dwellers in their system, which means in return, they lose their earned safety, and have to draw resources (i.e. manpower) from making money to defend against a "might be a cyno" to be safe again.

It wouldn't be a problem if a player got flagged afk, but at the moment, you can't spot a difference between afk or not, which means that you either have to stop your activity (especially as a miner) or you have to use your manpower to protect your system (which means you can't make money in the meantime). Due to this circumstances, the so called AFK-Cloaking is a threat you can do **** about.

Hope this helps understanding this issue.

Yes it's a tool, but here's the rub. Local intel is a guarantee, whereas the psychological effects from AFKing are not. Because for the effect to work, the persons the AFKer hopes to affect, need to act upon their fears.

Also cynos are unrelated, even though people like yourself try to include them in an AFK debate. If you have an issue with the cyno mechanic, then start a thread about it.

Hope that helps you understand this none issue.


Well, I will say it in the most dumb words I can find.

The moment you are invading hostile space, you do have an impact on system dwellers. It just doesn't matter if YOU ARE AFK after invading it, or IF YOU ARE NOT AFK, just because noone CAN MAKE SURE YOU ARE AFK for REAL.

ppl sitting afk the whole day shouldn't have influence on it.
AFK-cloaking is a tool, which is exploited over and over. Stop it. period.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#138 - 2012-03-07 07:41:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Hans Momaki wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Hans Momaki wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Generating false intel is not a reward, and either way, being AFK is unrelated to both.


Sorry, but erm.... AFK - cloaking is used as a strategic tool. It's generating a potential harm to dwellers in their system, which means in return, they lose their earned safety, and have to draw resources (i.e. manpower) from making money to defend against a "might be a cyno" to be safe again.

It wouldn't be a problem if a player got flagged afk, but at the moment, you can't spot a difference between afk or not, which means that you either have to stop your activity (especially as a miner) or you have to use your manpower to protect your system (which means you can't make money in the meantime). Due to this circumstances, the so called AFK-Cloaking is a threat you can do **** about.

Hope this helps understanding this issue.

Yes it's a tool, but here's the rub. Local intel is a guarantee, whereas the psychological effects from AFKing are not. Because for the effect to work, the persons the AFKer hopes to affect, need to act upon their fears.

Also cynos are unrelated, even though people like yourself try to include them in an AFK debate. If you have an issue with the cyno mechanic, then start a thread about it.

Hope that helps you understand this none issue.


Well, I will say it in the most dumb words I can find.

The moment you are invading hostile space, you do have an impact on system dwellers. It just doesn't matter if YOU ARE AFK after invading it, or IF YOU ARE NOT AFK, just because noone CAN MAKE SURE YOU ARE AFK for REAL.

ppl sitting afk the whole day shouldn't have influence on it.
AFK-cloaking is a tool, which is exploited over and over. Stop it. period.



Sorry snowflake you have no right to safety, no right to knowledge on whether anyone is afk or not and your idea is going no where. So suck it up. You will never get a tool for absolute security no matter how much you whine, beg, betch, cry or debate. It's not going to happen, ever. It'll break the game. The devs know it, and it's that simple. This the double digit thread, minimum, that doesn't get so much as acknowledged. You're allowed to vent but that's all. As I told Starfleet Endeavour months ago, months from now you'll have a new or be on page 20 and you will not have popular support or a dignified dev response.

Heres a protip.

PAY ATTENTION.

Not a single spot in space is yours. You do not own it. You have no inherent right to security in it.

They want people to die. Easier than not. Why? Because the game is founded on blowing ships up and when you give the playerbase the means to absolutely avoid ever doing it and then tack on the ability to go play and know every iota of detail into whos online, where and doing what, no one ever will.

So more tears please. They are yummy. But you are deluding yourself as are the crying few into believing you are going to get the final 1 up on personal security.

smile

cuz

You better believe it
Chatha Gathii
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2012-03-07 08:34:02 UTC
Hans Momaki wrote:

The moment you are invading hostile space, you do have an impact on system dwellers. It just doesn't matter if YOU ARE AFK after invading it, or IF YOU ARE NOT AFK, just because noone CAN MAKE SURE YOU ARE AFK for REAL.

ppl sitting afk the whole day shouldn't have influence on it.
AFK-cloaking is a tool, which is exploited over and over. Stop it. period.

AFK people influence space all the time.

Miners watch TV in the other monitor rather than actively piloting their ship to stay aligned to a safe.

Ratters run anomalies with 4 simultaneous clients, domis that orbit some structure while drones mop up the red '+' signs.

And I suspect that's where the real fear of cloakers comes from - players who can't be bothered to pay enough attention to their own screen to keep themselves safe against the dreaded "hot-drop".

By arguing against cloakers, you are arguing in favour of your own right to fly sloppy. And I don't see why your rights trump the AFK cloaker's in that regard.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#140 - 2012-03-07 08:34:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Hans Momaki wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Yes it's a tool, but here's the rub. Local intel is a guarantee, whereas the psychological effects from AFKing are not. Because for the effect to work, the persons the AFKer hopes to affect, need to act upon their fears.

Also cynos are unrelated, even though people like yourself try to include them in an AFK debate. If you have an issue with the cyno mechanic, then start a thread about it.

Hope that helps you understand this none issue.


Well, I will say it in the most dumb words I can find.

The moment you are invading hostile space, you do have an impact on system dwellers. It just doesn't matter if YOU ARE AFK after invading it, or IF YOU ARE NOT AFK, just because noone CAN MAKE SURE YOU ARE AFK for REAL.

ppl sitting afk the whole day shouldn't have influence on it.
AFK-cloaking is a tool, which is exploited over and over. Stop it. period.
Calling someone's words dumb, is always the sign of a winning argument. Amirite?
You could always dispute each line of my reply instead, I'll eagerly await your attempt. Big smile

Answer me this. When someone is AFK, what mechanic are they using to interact with you and try to create fear?

When you know the answer, then you'll understand where your problem lies.
Here's a clue, you can AFK and gain the same psychological effects, without a cloak. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.