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A win/win solution for fixing the issue of Local
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The Vastator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-03-06 14:59:06 UTC
Remove local from null sec. It's very easy to say for those who don't reside there.Roll
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-03-06 17:36:04 UTC
Cyniac wrote:

Let me tell you how I'd catch say a botting hulk in the situation you've just described (without local).

I'd warp onto their grid with a covert ship. I'd head towards one of the hulks. Literally I'd ram it at full speed - that would do two things:

1) I get to uncloak!
2) He's no longer aligned to warp

At that point - Tackle & kill (call in support depending on combat assets etc).

what would be different if this hulk isn't a bot but human? i think nothing will change.

So what is the main idea again?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#43 - 2012-03-06 22:49:02 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Gibbo3771 wrote:
Simple, make local a sov upgrade that requires extra up-keep. Depending on the level of the sov the local is delayed > instant

Sov 1 : delayed 10 minutes
Sov 2: delayed 5 minutes
Sov 3: delayed 2 minutes
Sov 4: delayed 15 seconds
Sov 5: Instant

This would work just fine, it would solve the botting problem because face it, botters occupy miltiary 5 systems that have nothing else and botting corporations cant all clusterfuk in the one system or they would make no money.

Or just make it depending on the true sec status, if local is delayed or not.


I like the idea, and would NPC space would stay as it currently is or change to sov 1?

IMO, I'd keep it the way it it because there a decent amount of travel through those systems and bots cant POS up every time a neut shows up or they would make no isk.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Ahrieman
Codex Praedonum
Divine Damnation
#44 - 2012-03-06 23:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ahrieman
What I supported was a delayed local for null sec. I will address these two points:

M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Ahrieman wrote:

One unintended consequence to this is that it might actually help nerf blobs.


First: not seeing how this would nerf blobs... it would make it easier for roams to find targets since gatecamps wouldn't run as soon as local increased more that 1, but that wouldn't end the sheer unkillable entity that is the drake blob with shield resistance bonuses and a fleet booster with a siege warfare mindlink and logi.



I chose my words carefully and I think you didn't pay attention to the language I used. You are right: will this nerf the Drake blob? Prob not much at all. Will this mean more numbers = victory? Not necessarily - due to an element of surprise (that doesn't require a cyno). That's what I meant.

M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Ahrieman wrote:
all the while preserving the uniqueness of W-space.


Second: If you want W-Space to stay unique then drop the remove local support garbage. W-Space is W-Space because it has no local. Nullsec is K-Space because it has local. All its going to do to nullsec is help the roamer looking for the easy kill, nothing more. It wouldn't even nerf bots because they can already spam the d-scanner far more efficiently than a person could (I don't know about you but after about 5 minutes my fingers is hurting.)


I NEVER supported the "remove local garbage." Secondly, helping the null sec roamer (not necessarily get "easy" kills though) IS a way to discourage blobber tactics. People complain that small gang/solo pvp is dead. That's because the game mechanics do not favor this form of play. Less people would want to blob if it weren't so effective meanwhile, other tactics just aren't very attractive in the face of large roaming gangs.

As for bots, yes they use D-scan. I heard that many bots have also used local bumps as a tool to activate "warp to safe" behavior - especially in the super quiet Russian bot space. This behavior would prevent using bombers to kill the bots. Am I incorrect here?

Solo Rifter since 2009
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#45 - 2012-03-07 08:57:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemon Ceed
How about this for an idea for 0.0: Create an anchorable structure (surveillance hub?) that can be placed near stargates, stations, or moons that detect those in the system, like a surveillance camera. It's purpose is to display people who pass through or near them for a certain amount of time and shows them in local. After a certain amount of time they'll disappear out of local until they pass within a certain range of another anchored surveillance structure. Maybe you can even set it so that it will only broadcast in local to those who own the structure/sov or have set standings to receive surveillance information. This gives added advantage to the defenders/owners of the system and less to the attackers/unknown/infiltrators. Perhaps as well you could require that the SOV owners have obtained a certain level of SOV to use such a structure. I could see it making for a lot of fun and surprises for those who have just conquered a system and also for reinforcements that come in to take it back.

If they are smart enough to stay out of range of player installed surveillance structures for a certain amount of time, they disappear from local all together. This will force people to find blindspots in the systems security AND potentially allow the opportunity to kill botters should they be smart about it. Everywhere else on Earth they have security cameras/motion detectors/etc to find out when people are around. Why not in space?

With this proposal you can have the best of both worlds.
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#46 - 2012-03-07 12:44:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Chicken Pizza
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Karak Bol wrote:
Whats "inactive"? How can eve notice that I am AFK?


I assume that the client can detect mouse and keyboard inputs since it responds to them.

AFK is simply the lack of mouse and keyboard inputs for a certain length of time.

T-

The client detects input incoming to the client, not just any input. That would require the EvE client to monitor processes it has no business monitoring, not to mention add unnecessary stress to the servers(these can't all be magically fixed client-side like people seem to think they can, and EvE is enough of a resource hog as it is). Add to that the fact that it's nobody's business whether or not I'm pressing keys or using my mouse.

If I am AFK, you shouldn't be able to tell. It adds to the whole "is he watching me still, or just sitting in system AFK?" effect that being in a cloaky bomber is primarily used for when harassing a system. You can really mess with someone's mind when they don't know if you'll strike when the Raven warps to a Hub, or when the Nightmare is at the most DPS-intense spawn in the Haven.

It's all about the mind games. You take those away and the only things left to gank will be bots...
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#47 - 2012-03-07 13:07:58 UTC
Roosterton wrote:
Better idea.

If you're in system and uncloaked: You can see local, but you can be seen in local.
If you're in system and cloaked: You cannot see local, but local cannot see you.


That just gives cloaky bombers the upper hand, because they don't actually need to see how many are in local. Any 0.0 bomber ganker with a brain will know how to d-scan. I know because I've done it.


The problem with all of these ideas is not the ideas themselves, but rather the people coming up with them. I could probably pull out several hundred killmails(at the very least, and some of which are on my killboard) where botters and players alike were ganked bearing it up in 0.0 by cloaky bombers and the like. And I haven't seen any of the dedicated ones(the predators OR the prey) on here bitching about local at all.

That being said, stop whining about local, coming up with ideas and fabricating events that will never stem from said ideas, and go back to whatever boring ISK-making activities you partake in all day for whatever fulfillment you can manage to get out of them, because one of these days, regardless of whether you can see me in local or not, you might find me(or somebody else) on your overview regardless.

^ Commas make it okay to type excessively long sentences.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#48 - 2012-03-07 15:47:21 UTC
in principle I believe local should be changed in 0.0. It should be made like w-space, have a fixed period delay, or some other kind of rule. However, in the current state of the game, making an easy, isolated change to local would be pretty terrible. Any change to nullsec-local rules should be part of a complete overhaul of the way people do intel in nullsec. If local is reworked, it should be done hand-in-hand with a completely new d-scan tool. There should be some preference or customization based on sov.

Also i said it before, local mechanics should have absolutely nothing to do with cloaking mechanics.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#49 - 2012-03-08 01:26:29 UTC
People who say the client can't detect players twitching mice haven't stared at anyone sitting in a POS and determined velocity tag 0m/s = at keyboard, and absent velocity tag = 99% AFK.

As for Vastator, I reiterate: your proposal to add people to Local in w-space when they jump in is so patently stupid Beevis and Butthead quit EVE because of it.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#50 - 2012-03-08 02:29:22 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
People who say the client can't detect players twitching mice haven't stared at anyone sitting in a POS and determined velocity tag 0m/s = at keyboard, and absent velocity tag = 99% AFK.

As for Vastator, I reiterate: your proposal to add people to Local in w-space when they jump in is so patently stupid Beevis and Butthead quit EVE because of it.


The client only detects twitching mice if it's the in-game cursor being moved.
Austneal
Nero Fazione
#51 - 2012-03-09 15:57:04 UTC
Cyniac wrote:


Let me tell you how I'd catch say a botting hulk in the situation you've just described (without local).

I'd warp onto their grid with a covert ship. I'd head towards one of the hulks. Literally I'd ram it at full speed - that would do two things:

1) I get to uncloak!
2) He's no longer aligned to warp

At that point - Tackle & kill (call in support depending on combat assets etc). I suppose it might not work every time but it would certainly work a whole lot more than the current situation where appearing in local is enough to make the bots vanish.


Just thought I'd point out a few flaws in this.

1.) Your "full speed" while cloaked is what, 300m/s or so in a frig? Also, if you're in a frig cloaked with no mwd / ab running, you're going to be light as a feather and will probably do little to nothing in terms of bumpage.

2.) As he described, the bot is going to be aligned out and moving. Making it quite hard to make contact with him at non-mwd speeds, unless you maneuver directly in front of him, and ram him head on.

3.) You don't decloak at 0 on the bot, you'll decloak at 2km for him. Since this is a bot we're talking about, it will probably be ready to warp the millisecond you decloak. And I would imagine that a bot's reflexes would be much greater than yours.

Cyniac wrote:
But what would I know of PVP right? Twisted

Lol
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