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caldari pvp ship choice?

Author
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-03-05 17:56:02 UTC  |  Edited by: RougeOperator
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
But how useful is that role in practice, in small gang PvP?



The Naga?

Very useful. My first hand accounts of using all the new BCs.

Hybrid and Assault ship rebalance made lots of caldari ships that were bad Good. I have had lots of good results in the Moa and Ferox as blaster ships. That can hit out to 20+km with blasters with null.

The OPT range bonus on their blaster boats with the change to Null is very good. OPT range bonus is not just for rails anymore.

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RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-03-05 19:16:16 UTC
Double post.

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Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-03-05 19:40:26 UTC
Quote:
The Naga?

Very useful. My first hand accounts of using all the new BCs.


What exactly do you mean by this?

Because as far as I can tell the other T3s are markedly better when fitted to DPS up to 70km, and only after that does the Naga have any advantages. The problem with this being that any range beyond this is mostly unhelpful for small gang purposes.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-03-05 21:05:17 UTC
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
Quote:
The Naga?

Very useful. My first hand accounts of using all the new BCs.


What exactly do you mean by this?

Because as far as I can tell the other T3s are markedly better when fitted to DPS up to 70km, and only after that does the Naga have any advantages. The problem with this being that any range beyond this is mostly unhelpful for small gang purposes.



You are going to have to give examples of these fits you are talking about.

Talos and Naga have the same damage bonus. But a naga lets me land at 100 or more away and still have the same DPS as that talos at that range. While my mates have it pinned down.

I live and die in low sec. Not EFT.

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The Vastator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-03-05 21:40:38 UTC
I'll add something just for the sake of adding something. The obvious HML drake and blaster...erhmm autocannon ferox are decent fleet ships. Other ships include merlin and it's variants, EEE SHEE EMMM and coTwisted.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-03-05 22:43:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
But how useful is that role in practice, in small gang PvP?


Considering that 70 km is the edge of Drake HM spam range, quite useful, I believe. And ECM boats like to hang out in tthe 70-100 km region too.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-03-06 02:59:10 UTC
The Vastator wrote:
I'll add something just for the sake of adding something. The obvious HML drake and blaster...erhmm autocannon ferox are decent fleet ships. Other ships include merlin and it's variants, EEE SHEE EMMM and coTwisted.


A null using boaster ferox has great range now. AC ferox still has a place but the blaster Dps with null range bonus is solid and you don't need to cross train.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **

Tazarak theDeceiver
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#28 - 2012-03-06 03:11:58 UTC
both the recons are great fun
Rokk Steady
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-03-06 04:19:46 UTC
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:
both the recons are great fun



I have some ideas to make the rook solid for solo picky hunting.. but does anyone have any good fits for the falcon and rook?
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
#30 - 2012-03-06 11:55:06 UTC
May as well just a fly a drake/tengu like everyone else.

All your going to fight against are those and canes, so may as well choose one tht can actually fight.
OT Smithers
A Farewell To Kings...
Dock Workers
#31 - 2012-03-06 14:03:29 UTC
Caldari ships, despite the latest hybrid boost, remain basically sub par at this point, and I that recommend anyone thinking of starting a toon select one of the other three races. This is not to say that Calari ships are so inferior that PvP with them is impossible, only that a new player is better served to look elsewhere.

With that said, to answer the original question:

Frigates: Caldari frigates tend to be slow, relatively tough to fit, and with low paper DPS. Their T1 frigates are situational and rely on tricks and noob mistakes from enemies to work at all.

Harpy: Every time a serial killer is arrested you see their neighbors and coworkers on TV. They always say how quiet he was, how he kept to himself and they never knew. The Harpy is the maniac of eve frigates.

Hawk: Had an epic, and often underrated tank prior to the buff. Now it can control range as well. You see a lot of these in low sec, and that is the surest judge of actual utility. Pirates use what works, forum and eft warriors use what look good on paper.

Hookbill: might well be the king of the dogfighters. It's actually fast, and it has five midslots. It is, however, very tough for a new player to fit.


Cruisers: In every way worse that the other race's cruisers. They are slower, heavier, fewer drones, tighter fittings, and (if I recall correctly) even have fewer slots than the same tech levels.

Caracal / Navy Caracal: A fine gang support ship for low or null sec. Maintain some range, stay aligned to some celestial, and spam light (assault launchers) or heavy missiles. Avoid the temptation to overtank.

Cerberus: This can spam heavy missiles out to a couple hundred kilometers -- cool, but rarely useful. It does nothing that the Tech 3 BC's don't already do better, and at twice the cost.

Falcon: The most hated ship in the game.

Blackbird / Rook Use these if you don't want people to attack you.


Battlecruisers:

Drake: It might not be the best BC in the game (they are ALL fantastic), but it is certainly a great ship. Avoid the temptation to overtank -- use those midslots to better purpose.


Battleships: Slow, crap weapon systems, and limited mislots. What's not to hate.

Raven: In Khazakhstan the word "Raven" means human waste or feces. It must in Iceland as well. Okay, I made all that up, but it aught to be true.

Scorpion: This is apparently good in the type of battles I have never actually been a part of. Since I have participated in most kinds of battles at one time or other, I am not sure what this would be, but I keep hearing it. Whatever. Caldari BS's are crap.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-03-06 14:29:05 UTC
I miss the Manticore and the Tengu in your list, both are very good PvP ships
Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-03-06 16:46:19 UTC


Quote:
You are going to have to give examples of these fits you are talking about.

Talos and Naga have the same damage bonus. But a naga lets me land at 100 or more away and still have the same DPS as that talos at that range. While my mates have it pinned down.





I'm thinking mainly of the Shield Scorch Oracle and the Barrage Nano Tornado, which have much better speed, applied DPS, and somewhat better tank (how much better depending on the exact fit you use) than the 425 Naga up to the roughly 70km point. I don't deny that the Naga is much better for landing at 100 and doing DPS from there, but I don't understand why that's any better than having an Oracle at 50 or 70, doing much higher damage and travelling much faster.
Quote:

I live and die in low sec. Not EFT.

Let's not start measuring our epeens, we both live and fight in lowsec.

Quote:

Considering that 70 km is the edge of Drake HM spam range, quite useful, I believe.

HM spam is less of a problem than you might think as the the Nado and the Oracle are surprisingly resilient, and the missiles take forever to get to that range. Moreover, as a counter to Drakes the EM damage of Scorch is a lot more effective than than the Kin/Therm of railguns.

Quote:
And ECM boats like to hang out in tthe 70-100 km region too.

Problem here is that the sniper Naga won't be in the middle of the fleet that the ECM are landing 70-100 off, because it doesn't have the tracking or the tank to fight effectively at close range. Who knows how far away from the Naga the ECM will actually be, while the Oracle/Nado, which was hanging out 30km away from "0" will be able to burn into range in seconds, most likely.
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-03-06 17:09:04 UTC
Griffin, with caldari frigate V and signal suppression IV you can permajam rifters and thrashers easy and then slowly slowly kill them when you hold them scrammed with your 1 drone and low low dps.
Longinius Spear
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
#35 - 2012-03-06 17:25:31 UTC
Falcon.


I have never been sad they were in any fleet I had. they are good in nearly all situations.

For solo work.. I like to fit mine with 2 Med Smart bombs, Warp disruptor, MWD and 2 Hobgoblins. It takes a while to kill people but it can be rewarding.

Smart bombs are to keep the "Unjamed drones" away. Or can be used as a offensive weapon if your bored.

See below.

http://narwhals.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12206231

Read more of my ramblings on my blog www.invadingyourhole.blogspot.com

Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#36 - 2012-03-06 17:31:53 UTC
Falcons are kinda squishy for their price though.
Ratklif
Orbidon Galactic Industries
#37 - 2012-03-06 17:52:04 UTC
What about the Command Ships. Is the Nighthawk no good anymore? What about the Vulture now with hybrid buff?

OfBalance
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-03-06 18:07:30 UTC
Ratklif wrote:
What about the Vulture now with hybrid buff?



lmao
Liam Mirren
#39 - 2012-03-06 18:14:18 UTC
The vulture is not intended to do dps, it can do it in a "help, I'm a gang link fit I can't depend myself. I really hope no one attacks me right now" solo thingy but ever there it's mediocre at best, and its support dps is laughable. Another gripe about the vulture is that it doesn't get even close to the EHP a Damnation can get in gang link fit.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-03-06 18:38:00 UTC
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
I'm thinking mainly of the Shield Scorch Oracle and the Barrage Nano Tornado, which have much better speed, applied DPS, and somewhat better tank (how much better depending on the exact fit you use) than the 425 Naga up to the roughly 70km point. I don't deny that the Naga is much better for landing at 100 and doing DPS from there, but I don't understand why that's any better than having an Oracle at 50 or 70, doing much higher damage and travelling much faster.


Some general points.It's a long time since I've been in lowsec, but when I was there, my personal style emphasised range. Other styles are viable too, and I have nothing against Oracle or Tornado when they're used appropriately. But I do object to your assertion that the 70-100 km range window is unimportant, in the same way that you would object if I was to state that the close-range window was unimportant, presumably.

I struggle to get much past 30k EHP on a Tornado. Missile flight time to 70 km is 12 seconds, hardly an eternity. I would not describe these things as resilient, and in a straight slugging match with a basic HML Drake they will normally die - or be driven from the field, which is why I regard the ~70 km effective HM range as important. Interestingly, if you do regard EHP as important, then the Naga is worth a look on that basis. If you have logistics support, then sure, you may prefer to stay inside the HM envelope and take the hits, but if not, then the option to outrange them exists. Re. damage types: yes, Scorch is good vs Drakes, hybrids are okay, Barrage is lolterrible.

Quote:

Problem here is that the sniper Naga won't be in the middle of the fleet that the ECM are landing 70-100 off, because it doesn't have the tracking or the tank to fight effectively at close range. Who knows how far away from the Naga the ECM will actually be, while the Oracle/Nado, which was hanging out 30km away from "0" will be able to burn into range in seconds, most likely.


The other t3s don't have the tank to operate effective at close range either. So here's a guess. Naga warps in at 50 km; Falcon uncloaks/Scimitar arrives on the other side at 50-70 km. Result: 100-120 km range, Naga applies damage after 5 s reload. Tornado and Oracle, which arrived at 20-30 km because they can't survive close up either, find themselves hopelessly out of range and possibly with t2 BCs to fly around if they do want to approach the Falcon/Scimitar. I mean, your statement admits that the other t3s will not be in range, it's not much of an argument, honestly.

I spent a long time in lowsec specialising in anti-ECM/ranged logistics duty - I found it absurd that people would complain about ECM when they had made the conscious decision to fly ships incapable of driving ECM boats from the field.
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