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Nerf AFK cloakers
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CaleAdaire
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#81 - 2012-03-06 04:15:51 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
They generate false intel while not playing the game.

Not playing the game should not be rewarded.

So if they are truly afk and not playing... They pose no real threat, do your thing and quit griping.

Trust in God, Have Faith in Fusion.
Asudem
Black Spear.
#82 - 2012-03-06 05:15:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Asudem
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
You guys keep on asking why the ratters should be able to fly completely safe. Again...you miss the point. Why should the cloaker be 100% safe and absolutely immune to any and all methods of attack?

I can keep this up forever. You keep asking why ratters should be safe and ill keep asking why a cloaker should be safe.


Immune to all methods of attacks? You can still damage cloaks through smartbombs, anything within 2km will decloak you and instant lockon ships prevent you from cloaking again. As James Amril-Kesh said, there are enough ways to prevent cloakers from being safe in your system. Drop your ridiculous arguments.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#83 - 2012-03-06 08:09:37 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Why should the cloaker be 100% safe and absolutely immune to any and all methods of attack?
Seeing as how he isn't, that's a pretty academic question, don't you think?
Quote:
I can keep this up forever.
Unlikely. Sooner or later, your imagination will run out and you won't be able to dream up more fantasy statements or questions of no practical relevance like the one you asked above.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#84 - 2012-03-06 09:10:18 UTC
Is it that time of the month again?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#85 - 2012-03-06 09:37:29 UTC  |  Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2
Ares Renton wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
You guys keep on asking why the ratters should be able to fly completely safe. Again...you miss the point. Why should the cloaker be 100% safe and absolutely immune to any and all methods of attack?

I can keep this up forever. You keep asking why ratters should be safe and ill keep asking why a cloaker should be safe.


Why should a suicide ganker be safe in high sec? You know he's patrolling belts looking for hulks. Why can't we kill him?


Because hi sec is broken as well since you cant do preemptive strike there.
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#86 - 2012-03-06 09:44:45 UTC  |  Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2
Tippia wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
The problem nobody seems to understand is that just because he is called an "AFK cloaker" doesn't mean he is.
No, everyone understands that.

What we don't understand is why people are so pathologically incapable of protecting themselves in spite of all the tools at their disposal, that a single name in local is enough to send them running for the hills. The AFK cloaker can't do anything — the “victim” is the only one doing anything and if he doesn't like what he's doing, he can simply stop doing it.

Quote:
This illusion of a threat whether it is real or not is still done while AFK and yeilds an advantage in that you are preventing others from safely ratting.
No. What's preventing those people from ratting safely (and we're skipping past the part where I ask you why on earth they should be free to do that) is that they refuse to create any safety for themselves. The AFK cloaker is not a factor in that lack of safety — it's all down to the incompetence of the ratter.

AFK cloaking is not a problem. Ratters' unwillingness to solve their own insecurity is a problem. This is why the ultimate solution to “AFK cloaking” — the removal of local — is so antithetical to the wishes of those ratters, even though it should be right up their alley.

JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
Yes it is especially dangerous for the cloaker.
Yes it is. In particular, if it's not dangerous for the cloaker, then it's completely safe for the ratter too, so he has zero grounds for complaining.


Tippia i am surprised you are so dense.

You cant die to afk cloaker since he is afk so your entire argument is moot. I dont mind people dying to active clockers.

But you cant make a difference between afk and active one the problem arises when afk cloaker goes out for pizza and has possibility to influence a game via generation of false intel with 100% immunity.

Stop projecting your own beliefs and use your brain for a moment. People have to sacrifice their resources for someone who may not even be at their keyboard.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#87 - 2012-03-06 10:26:22 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:

But you cant make a difference between afk and active one the problem arises when afk cloaker goes out for pizza and has possibility to influence a game via generation of false intel with 100% immunity.


If you removed the ridiculously over the top 100% effortless Intel provided by Local chat this wouldn't be an issue. Try as they may to ignore the fact those that whine about "AFK Cloaking" cannot get away from that the underlying problems are caused by Local Chat which they cling to like a dung beetle to fresh piece of crap.

As to risk... Ships while under a cloak can do pretty much the same as someone In a POS shield, where's your threads to nerf that?

Cov Ops ships are all weak compared to non cloaked varieties of ships, and if it's hotdrops you have an issue with make a nerf Cyno's thread not cloaks.
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#88 - 2012-03-06 10:31:25 UTC  |  Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2
Xorv wrote:

If you removed the ridiculously over the top 100% effortless Intel provided by Local chat this wouldn't be an issue. Try as they may to ignore the fact those that whine about "AFK Cloaking" cannot get away from that the underlying problems are caused by Local Chat which they cling to like a dung beetle to fresh piece of crap.

I am not against removing local. I lived in a wormholes for 1,5 year my self.


Xorv wrote:

As to risk... Ships while under a cloak can do pretty much the same as someone In a POS shield, where's your threads to nerf that?

You can come and kill the pos.

Xorv wrote:

Cov Ops ships are all weak compared to non cloaked varieties of ships, and if it's hotdrops you have an issue with make a nerf Cyno's thread not cloaks.

No i am against people going out for pizza and them having satisfaction of putting entire system in "high alert"
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2012-03-06 10:36:36 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
No i am against people going out for pizza and them having satisfaction of putting entire system in "high alert"

I'm having a hard time seeing why this isn't a complete overreaction, hotdrops and all.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#90 - 2012-03-06 10:45:43 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
You cant die to afk cloaker since he is afk so…
…this entire complaint is moot.

Quote:
But you cant make a difference between afk and active one the problem arises when afk cloaker goes out for pizza and has possibility to influence a game via generation of false intel with 100% immunity.
The intel isn't false and the trick is to not let it make any difference. He's also not immune and his “possibility to influence the game” is no different than the bajillions of other ways purposefully built into the game that let you keep making a difference regardless of whether you're present or not.

Quote:
Stop projecting your own beliefs and use your brain for a moment
You first.

The fact remains: AFK cloakers are not a problem — people flipping out because there is a name in local are the problem, and the solution begins with them. The problem is that those who create the problem (viz. the ratters) don't want to solve the problem — they want it to be built out of the game for no useful reason. AFK cloakers can't do anyting and present zero risk. If they stop being AFK and start to present a risk, then they are at risk.

My only question is: why do people so adamantly refuse to dig down and find (and solve) the actual problem? Why do they go after a (non)actiivity and a module that is pretty much completely irrelevant to the issue they're having?
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#91 - 2012-03-06 10:52:56 UTC  |  Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2
Tippia iam going to repeat again and for last time.

People have to sacrifice their resources ( such as cloaked alt ) for a person that may not even be at their keyboard.
If you dont understand this sorry there is just no simpler way to say it.

This is broken.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#92 - 2012-03-06 10:56:10 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
People have to sacrifice their resources ( such as cloaked alt ) for a person that may not even be at their keyboard.
Yes, the cloaker has to give up quite a lot for very little assured effect. How is that broken?
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#93 - 2012-03-06 10:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2
Tippia wrote:
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
People have to sacrifice their resources ( such as cloaked alt ) for a person that may not even be at their keyboard.
Yes, the cloaker has to give up quite a lot for very little assured effect. How is that broken?


It is broken because he goes out for pizza. It is hardly sacrifice.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-03-06 11:03:59 UTC
And when I go out for pizza when I'm docked at a station?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#95 - 2012-03-06 11:06:21 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
It is broken because he goes out for pizza. It is hardly sacrifice.
So now it's not a sacrifice… Ugh

Anyway, the question remains: what's the actual problem? How is any of this in any way an issue with the cloaker? Why are you trying to “fix” an activity and a module that is completely irrelevant to what's actually going on?
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#96 - 2012-03-06 11:09:44 UTC
Tippia wrote:
So now it's not a sacrifice… Ugh



It is not a sacrifice from the part of the cloaker while at the same time i have to sacrifice in-game resources to counter him eating pizza.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#97 - 2012-03-06 11:13:41 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
It is not a sacrifice from the part of the cloaker while at the same time i have to sacrifice in-game resources to counter him eating pizza.
So? What's the problem? How is any of this in any way an issue with the cloaker? Why are you trying to “fix” an activity and a module that is completely irrelevant to what's actually going on?

Also, how is it a sacrifice for you if you're doing pretty much the exact same thing? What else were you going to do with that alt? What are you sacrificing?
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#98 - 2012-03-06 11:13:41 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
And when I go out for pizza when I'm docked at a station?



If you mean sitting in enemy station after a flip.

Beside how is that relevant.

Being in space != being docked. Two different states, two different situation.
Asudem
Black Spear.
#99 - 2012-03-06 11:15:11 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
[quote=Xorv]
No i am against people going out for pizza and them having satisfaction of putting entire system in "high alert"


Pizza... Pirate Please keep in mind, that the cloakers are also just humans like your master is. So they have to eat. And what could be a better opportunity then being sieged while hanging out in the POS or somewhere cloaked?

But seriously, high alert just because there is 1 cloaky guy in local is quite pathetic. Lets talk about 10 ppl and I can understand the high alert. My tip for you if you wanted to feel safe:
- Put up a small POS if there is no station to dock at. So you have a safe harbor to jump in and out. Warp away as soon as you can if its getting dangerous.
- Fly in small groups up to 5 ppl / toons. One should watch acc gates, the others can be fitted for PVP. Just dont fly alone if you are a PVP noob.
- Listen to the intel guy if you dont want to stare at local.
- DONT GO AFK FOR PIZZA!!!
- DONT be a noob, even if you are used to be one - if you are one, get an arrow to the knee.
- Keep a cool head, even if you eat a hot pizza!
- Dont worry, be happy.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#100 - 2012-03-06 11:16:19 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
Beside how is that relevant.

Being in space != being docked. Two different states, two different situation.
It's only different if the guy at the other end can tell the difference. In many cases, he can't, and in the remaining cases, finding out is not just risky, but actually completely compromises the whole “AFK cloaking” thing. It's relevant because if you are complaining about the lack of effort required for the cloaker, then the exact same kind of “influence” for the counter-cloaker requires even less effort.