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New dev blog: Time Dilation – How’s That Going?

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Elanor Vega
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2012-02-11 15:08:51 UTC
Crucis Cassiopeiae wrote:
One question about TiDi:

Is it possible to put in game some space distortion/anomaly that appear in the space that's under time dilation?
This way players will have a feeling like its game feature, especially in systems that are on same node an system where fight is.
And add message from our ship computer, something like: "Ships sensors discovered time flux anomaly generated by unknown source. Ship computer cant predict time variables in this conditions."


There would be few pluses of this:
1. From annoying thing that ppl don't know why it is happening you make new game feature. In all space related stories there was some sort of time flux anomaly so its all ok from the side of the space story.
2. You add some nice new graphic of space distortion/anomaly in the space.
3. You add one new thing that ppl cant predict in the game (good thing).
4. You give ppl a story behind all of this.


Just a thought.



^^ This!
Vegare
Bitslix
Lolsec Fockel
#62 - 2012-02-11 21:32:50 UTC
When I first saw the dilated animation of a minimizing window that made me smile Lol
Frosteye
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-02-12 01:43:09 UTC
You good sirs, win the gaming world.

Pretty EPIC stuff.

One "server", one universe, one really high Industry-wide bar.

Good job.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#64 - 2012-02-12 02:07:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
It occured to me that if TiDi could be extended to include ships jumping into system, rather than just trying to load everyone as soon as they hit jump, the negative effects of jumping into a dilated system might be mitigated sufficiently to allow for a more seamless transition.

Basically, if the system being jumped into is dilated, hold all entering ships by the same factor rather than just trying to cram them all in at once.

Or am I a r3t4rd and that is already the way it is?

TiDi=Win!

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Imigo Montoya
BreadFleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#65 - 2012-02-12 08:59:14 UTC
I'm yet to experience a big fight with TiDi myself, but I've heard many good things about it - mostly crackling as the person on voice comms drools at the thought of their last TiDi enabled fleet fight.

Now you can stay the course CCP, because now you're on the right vector.
Ramman K'arojic
Lone Star Warriors
Brave Collective
#66 - 2012-02-12 09:00:00 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
.The fine folks over in Operations have been running experiments with virtualization in order to get a better idea how the Eve server specifically reacts to it. For instance, Sisi is currently virtualized. If it works out and we can migrate smoothly, that would allow us to take *groups* of solar systems and put them on beefier hardware. It doesn't give us the ability to isolate a specific solar system though, which is what the software-level migration (non-destructive live remapping, we call it) would give us.

As always, a step in the right direction is always good even if it doesn't go *all* the way, so here's hoping the tests go well!



I believe you when you say system level TiDi would be a major undertaking. But may you consider an alternate approach - once a system enters TiDi for say more than a configured period (say 2 minutes) - the primarily problem solar system - is then transferred off to 1 of a bank of floating nodes in RT; players notice nothing, other node users get relieved of the TiDi handicap and resume normal time.

I believe that you have some of the tools to do this sort of stuff already - but this solution may be less work and offer other uses for other projects.

Anyway Amazing work.
Regards
Ramm
Aineko Macx
#67 - 2012-02-12 15:35:41 UTC
TiDi is great.

However, the constant client crashing is ruining much of the fun. In larger fleets there's always someone dropping fleet and e-warping.

Also, recently I got bombed under TiDi, which had the interesting effect of making my pod completely unresponsive and my grid stopped updating completely. Realizing it was some sort of desync (I thought that was a thing of the past), I tried relogging, which black-screened me. After what I guess were 15 minutes I then finally managed to log back in.

I can't wait to see these fixed, and of course the mentioned client performance improvements. Much needed! Cool

iveeCore 3.0: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#68 - 2012-02-12 15:48:56 UTC
Aineko Macx wrote:
TiDi is great.

However, the constant client crashing is ruining much of the fun. In larger fleets there's always someone dropping fleet and e-warping.

Also, recently I got bombed under TiDi, which had the interesting effect of making my pod completely unresponsive and my grid stopped updating completely. Realizing it was some sort of desync (I thought that was a thing of the past), I tried relogging, which black-screened me. After what I guess were 15 minutes I then finally managed to log back in.

I can't wait to see these fixed, and of course the mentioned client performance improvements. Much needed! Cool


Have you been able to submit a bug report in that state?

The build on sisi was crashing out due to memery issues during the mass test but hopefully it gets fixed. Until the process of switching grids gets smoother I think we will still have drops of this kind. When I get a client rendering freeze when warping away from a mining belt. when running multipule clients. It makes it super important to have your FPS showing on your client so you can tell if the pause under TIDI is just a proccessing sink issue/ a memery issue or if it is just a normal game state that is lengthend becouse of TIDI.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#69 - 2012-02-14 19:11:07 UTC
Excellent. Now that you have the band-aid successfully applied, the next step is to leisurely change things so that the band-aid can come off at some point (eliminate blob magnets, aka. EHP grinds) .. right? Smile
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#70 - 2012-02-15 21:25:24 UTC
Matuk Grymwal wrote:
Just wondering, how seriously have you looked at using virtualisation and live migration for better load balancing? As you say porting a software load at the application level over to a different server is nigh on impossible unless you design it from the ground up to support that. However shuffling an entire VM over to a different (beefier) server is much easier with the live migration support available in most commercial hypervisors. So on an overloaded node you could up the TIDI factor, possibly even briefly pausing the node like you do at shutdown, live migrate to a reinforced node, dynamically up the RAM/VCPU allocation on the VM and then unlock TIDI to run as normal.

-Mat


as someone who works closely with those...

THIS!

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#71 - 2012-02-15 21:29:20 UTC
smaster wrote:
Time Delation has shown us players esp one thing, that your hardware is indeed undersized and not capable of running the users playing the game.

CCP U NEED MORE SERVERS FOR RUNNING THE GAME

When u fly in vale of the silent, and 4 regions further in branch there is a fight, and u get stuck in 90% time delation and it takes u 20 minutes to travel 3 jumps, YOU NEED MORE SERVERS FOR 0.0


*Facepalm*

it doesn't matter how fast the software is, and how beefy the hardware is - WE'LL JUST PILE MORE PEOPLE INTO THE SYSTEM.

TiDi is all about "graceful failure conditions" as opposed to the previous "**** just breaks"




*cough*jackass*cough*

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Phil Viral
London Elektricity
#72 - 2012-02-28 21:59:10 UTC
I've been out of the loop a bit the past few months, so when I saw this blog I had no idea what Time Dilation is. So I tried to click the link at the top of this blog, and I get a 404 error!!!

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=900

Can someone tell me where I can find a good explanation of how this time dilation thing works?
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#73 - 2012-02-28 22:04:45 UTC
Phil Viral wrote:
I've been out of the loop a bit the past few months, so when I saw this blog I had no idea what Time Dilation is. So I tried to click the link at the top of this blog, and I get a 404 error!!!

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=900

Can someone tell me where I can find a good explanation of how this time dilation thing works?

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3412

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Phil Viral
London Elektricity
#74 - 2012-02-28 22:40:32 UTC
That's all about how TiDi has been going so far... I'm curious about how it actually works, what will I experience as a player? Does everything slow down? This article is the first time I've heard of TiDi and I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#75 - 2012-02-28 22:47:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Phil Viral wrote:
That's all about how TiDi has been going so far... I'm curious about how it actually works, what will I experience as a player? Does everything slow down? This article is the first time I've heard of TiDi and I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

There are links in the devblog back to previous devblogs and a dev video that show how it works.

Short version: Server records all action requests from clients and proccess them in order requested slowing down the in game second to second action so that every request gets processed at the right time.
It is shown by a rate timer to the right of system information that is shaped like the session change timer. It only turns on when the server has gone to 100% usage of its proccessor.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Phil Viral
London Elektricity
#76 - 2012-02-28 23:07:52 UTC
Perfect. thank you. Those links in the devblog are dead.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#77 - 2012-02-28 23:25:24 UTC
Phil Viral wrote:
Perfect. thank you. Those links in the devblog are dead.

What?
The fault of the new web sites. If you just scroll back thru the dev blogs. You will find those devblogs whose links are broken.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
CyberGh0st
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2012-03-05 23:47:03 UTC  |  Edited by: CyberGh0st
Denidil wrote:
smaster wrote:
Time Delation has shown us players esp one thing, that your hardware is indeed undersized and not capable of running the users playing the game.

CCP U NEED MORE SERVERS FOR RUNNING THE GAME

When u fly in vale of the silent, and 4 regions further in branch there is a fight, and u get stuck in 90% time delation and it takes u 20 minutes to travel 3 jumps, YOU NEED MORE SERVERS FOR 0.0


*Facepalm*

it doesn't matter how fast the software is, and how beefy the hardware is - WE'LL JUST PILE MORE PEOPLE INTO THE SYSTEM.

TiDi is all about "graceful failure conditions" as opposed to the previous "**** just breaks"


*cough*jackass*cough*


Even tho the way he presented his case was not very constructive, his case still stands.

Sure TiDi is an improvement, before systems crashed, now they live with 90% TiDi, definatly an improvement.

However, when players are affected by TiDi 4 zones away from the overloaded system, then there is definatly a need for more servers and/or a smarter approach for clustering systems. Imho, systems clustered together on Sol/CPU should not cross region borders, and should be clustered on constellation or regional basis ( depending on load ).

Perhaps a dev can explain is a bit more how the Sol's and cpu's are divided between nodes, and why there is a need to cluster together systems seperated by 4 regions.
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-03-07 21:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Welsige
I hope theres work being done regarding the performance of normal nodes relative to reinforced ones. In normal nodes even the smallest ammount of lag by the graphs causes absurd amount of TiDi.

On normal nodes even lag bellow 2 seconds causes massive TiDi to be about 20% of normal time, while in reinforced ones the TiDi level hardly goes bellow 50% even in the more stressful moments.

Yes, praise CCP for the results is due, but one must also acknowledge that the situation in normal nodes are far from good, 20% performance is slower than a snail, especially when you take into account that many systems suffer from it when it kicks in normal nodes.

There should be taken action to not allow it go down 50%.



On a side note: while in a big fight, and seeing that my 3-4 hours window had neted me perhaps what, 1 hour of real gameplay, i seriously thought about suiciding my ship because that battle had no end on sight with a TiDi bellow 20%. I am allowing myself to only go into small scale warfare from now on.

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
CyberGh0st
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2012-03-09 23:03:12 UTC
Welsige wrote:
I hope theres work being done regarding the performance of normal nodes relative to reinforced ones. In normal nodes even the smallest ammount of lag by the graphs causes absurd amount of TiDi.

On normal nodes even lag bellow 2 seconds causes massive TiDi to be about 20% of normal time, while in reinforced ones the TiDi level hardly goes bellow 50% even in the more stressful moments.

Yes, praise CCP for the results is due, but one must also acknowledge that the situation in normal nodes are far from good, 20% performance is slower than a snail, especially when you take into account that many systems suffer from it when it kicks in normal nodes.

There should be taken action to not allow it go down 50%.



On a side note: while in a big fight, and seeing that my 3-4 hours window had neted me perhaps what, 1 hour of real gameplay, i seriously thought about suiciding my ship because that battle had no end on sight with a TiDi bellow 20%. I am allowing myself to only go into small scale warfare from now on.


Yah, TiDi shouldn't become an excuse for not upgrading hardware. It should only be used for the largest engagements.