These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Amarr BS and Missions, they don't seem to go well together?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ciya
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-03-04 18:14:05 UTC
So I've been trying to make a small guide for new players in our corp about to start lvl4's, I wanted to put decent lvl4 fits and give opinion about the "best" choice of BS in each faction, I got Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente done pretty fast, but once I started with Amarr BS, it seems near impossible?

So how do you actually fit an Amarr BS to be able to do lvl4's in a reasonable manner, my criteria is ability to fit 500-600reinforced defense and 200-300sustained, I take these numbers from "all lvl 5" char and T2 equipment, I will later figure how much you can take away from skills with named gear that would still be enough to complete most lvl4's without problems.
I will also provide perma boosted overkill tanked setups with 500-600sustained tank for those few very first missions so they can feel safe for the few first missions until they learn about the dangerous ones and start to feel more comfortable without perma boosting.

Also I try to find the ability to do DPS with "optimal" at 40km and preferably at least some up to 70-90km, so new players would be able to do all missions reasonably well with the ship they have just invested most of their money into.

I have not been able to fit any of the Amarr BS inside those criteria, is it possible?

I suppose Pulse Apoc is reasonably close, but range even with Scorch is only 62+10 as I have not figured out a way to fit a Tracking computer there, with Named weapons you deal really bad damage to long ranges, and most of that is EM...

-Thank you for answers.
Whiteknight03
Trilon Industries and Exploration
#2 - 2012-03-04 18:37:09 UTC
. . . You're having trouble with amarr? Where all 3 battleships have their own following for doing level 4's well and efficiently?
First off, doing damage at greater than 50 km is not neccessary for Blood or Sansha missions. 70-90km is just overkill. The farthest a BS orbits at is 49km, if I recall correctly. Laser boats should never fly against anything else anyway (Other than drones, which orbit close too).

I fly an Armageddon most of the time. This is the fit I used when my skills were still a bit worse. It's quite overtanked, but hey.
[Armageddon, PulseLaser Copy T2]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Infrared L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Infrared L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Infrared L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Infrared L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Infrared L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Infrared L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Infrared L
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Hobgoblin II x5
Curator I x4

Last highslot to taste. I usually use a NOS, which makes it just barely cap stable. without the NOS, using Multifreq, you have 459 dps sustained tank against 50/50 EM/TH. Peak tank is 605 dps. At 50km, you deal around 463 dps. At 18km, you deal 764 dps.
Sentry drones really help damage projection on the Armageddon.
Mnesarete
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#3 - 2012-03-04 18:43:32 UTC
The Apocalypse is a great choice for a L4 mission runner in Amarr space. The faction hardeners are cheap (about 15 million) and use about half the CPU of the T2 ones. Makes fitting this a bit easier. Or, if you want to actually upgrade the performance, faction heat sinks are the first thing to go for - less CPU and better than T2. This fit has good DPS and enough tank for any L4 mission. It's also relatively cap stable, which is often comforting to new players (or those with crappy connections).

[Apocalypse, Apocalypse]
Large Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
True Sansha Armor EM Hardener
True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

100MN Afterburner II
Stasis Webifier II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#4 - 2012-03-04 18:54:04 UTC
Abaddon also makes a good ship for tanking....

But as they've stated, lazor boats should really only be used against sansha/blood/drones b/c shooting anything else just nerfs the dps too much.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-03-04 21:18:30 UTC
Yup, Amarr BS are particularly tough to fit for permatanking with good damage.
This is because Lasers are incredibly cap hungry and you end up needing to spend slots/rigs on cap mods/rigs instead of tank or damage mods/rigs.
Also, Scorch is key to many fits, and training T2 large pulses is a long time for new players.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-03-04 21:35:46 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:
Abaddon also makes a good ship for tanking....

But as they've stated, lazor boats should really only be used against sansha/blood/drones b/c shooting anything else just nerfs the dps too much.


Eh, lasers are alright against Serpentis, but Serpentis do have thermal as their second lowest resist (after kinetic).


With regards to the op, I think it's going to be a struggle to make a newbie guide for Amarr BS's + Lasers due to them being fairly skill intensive, with T2 lasers along with top cap skills being a must.

However, if you fit projectiles to things like the Abaddon, it still functions rather well, so might be worth exploring that.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2012-03-04 21:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
I think this fits your basic criteria:


[Apocalypse, basic semi-tanky mishin]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Medium Armor Repairer II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

It gets harder if you don't have T2 guns as you more or less have to fit beams, but... Yeah. That should fit your brackets just about perfectly.

Edit: here's the T1 gun version. It works as well:


[Apocalypse, basic semi-tanky mishin t1 guns]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Power Diagnostic System II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Medium Armor Repairer II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Liam Mirren
#8 - 2012-03-04 21:53:25 UTC
Apoc can be made cap stable on medium skills just fine, Navy apoc is quite decent, Abaddon can be godly once you have T2 pulses and stop trying to be cap stable. Being cap stable is a crutch, not a necessity. Once you know what you're doing it's actually unwanted in favour of more focussed dps and tank.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#9 - 2012-03-04 22:33:12 UTC
Amarr mission boats are not ideally fit if they are cap stable. It can be done, but as said not ideal. Instead, they should have just enough to last about 5 mins with everything running, pulse the tank as needed, and melt everything in range in just a couple cycles. If you fly them in Amarr space, where you fight EM weak rats, this is very easy and the isk will flow copiously. Cap boosters and target painters (or web if you can afford faction; remember you can't melt what your turrents can't track) are key to a proper fit.

A navy geddon with t2 pulses and t2 sentries can push out over 800 dps at 30km, still easily hit 600dps past 50, while tanking 4-500 and all of this with t2 fittings only. That is, once you get over trying to be cap stable and learn the way of the cap booster 800. Not too shabby for a fit with zero faction or deadspace mods.

Overhaul Dscan!
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2012-03-05 07:17:30 UTC
As stated above, The ged is a very solid L4 machine and the Navy issue even more so. Though Id make sure to advise as part of your guide to have at least T2 light drones to deal with spider drones and scram mission interceptor. Other wise those will ruin your day in a hurry.

And if your looking for cap stability just fly mini, youll have much less stress that way.
illirdor
Upper Class Goat
#11 - 2012-03-05 10:06:53 UTC  |  Edited by: illirdor
yea amarr bs is more than capable to do l4 but you cant really do the afk thing with them and you dont have to be cap stable they have an awesome buffer and resist (baddon) or the geddon that can do crazy dps but again they requird abit more of the pilot instead of domi or raven

*edit
And armor faction mods are cheap so thats a big plus

Soooo this is my sig.... 
Ravenesa
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-03-05 17:54:28 UTC
Start with the Apoc, roll into the Geddon with good drone skills, top end with be the Abaddon. The Abaddon is much more skill intensive than the others in terms of Raw SP and knowing how to run missions. A good portion of the Abaddon's PvE tank is the ability to spit out an insane amount of DPS.

People might not like to admit it, but the Geddon and Apoc, with their generous low slots, can be made into projectile platforms. You give up some of the DPS, but it makes some of the none Blood/Sansha missions passable.
Ira Infernus
Knights-of-Cydonia
#13 - 2012-03-05 19:22:42 UTC
[Abaddon, Missions]
Core C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Core C-Type 100MN Afterburner
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II

Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5


That was the first battleship I flew on a L4, untill I got T2 pulses and got a Navy Apoc. It has stab at 48% without the rep on, cap lasts 3mins with it on. It does +/- 500DPS in tanking abaility, and does +/1 750 DPS (add about 100 when you get pulses on there).
It was more than enough.


Amarr ships are the dogs bollocks for blood raider, drone, and sansha missions, they have perfect native reistsance to the damage types thrown, and do the best damage to them with lasers.

IMO the amarr need a better drone battleship (IMO the geddons cap usage bonus should be removed and replaced with a drone damage bonus, and should have an additional mid slot) to bring them on par with other factions for universal mission ability.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-03-05 22:15:24 UTC
Faced with this problem i fit my Apoc something like this (I can dig up the actual EFT fit and module names when i get home).

8x meta4 Tachyon Beams
1x Large Cap Booster
2x tracking computer II
1x SeBo (meta 4 I think?)
4x Heat Sink II
1x LAR II
1x EM Energized plating II
1x Thermal Energized plating II

3x ancilary current router I

15x Hobgoblin II

The tank isn't very good at all, but with decent skills Navy Multifrequency should outdamage standard out to about 80-90km. You pop things as they come in, swapping scripts in the computers and SeBo as needed. I've hit orbitting Sansha cruisers at about 20km so the tracking isn't a huge issue. If you let things get too close you collect your drones warp out, then warp back in at range and pop things before they get close again.
Mnesarete
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#15 - 2012-03-06 02:28:23 UTC
Mavnas wrote:
If you let things get too close you collect your drones warp out, then warp back in at range and pop things before they get close again.


This is also known as the sub-optimal way to run missions.

That is why the Great Creator invented the Pulse Laser, Scorch, Imperial Navy Multifrequency, and the Stasis Webifier. As it says somewhere towards the back of the Gospel of St. Laserius: "And behold, he looked down and saw that his people were able to smite their enemies, who had been naughty in his sight, at all practical ranges, and he saw that this was good."
The Vastator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-03-06 03:39:26 UTC
I'd use cap boosters instead of cap rechargers so you can fill your mids with tracking comps, webs and sebos plus cap boosters charges are pretty cheap to come by.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#17 - 2012-03-06 06:25:27 UTC
The Vastator wrote:
I'd use cap boosters instead of cap rechargers so you can fill your mids with tracking comps, webs and sebos plus cap boosters charges are pretty cheap to come by.


I would too (mostly tracking comps). But the fits I posted do indeed work without.
Ciya
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-03-06 10:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciya
There are a lot of setups with very minimal tank and I don't think I can suggest those for a player that is going into lvl4's for the very first time, obviously they should progress into them later once they have learned more about the missions.

Also I wouldn't want to say that "you should decline everything else than sansha/blood/drones", because they most likely have a single corp with lvl4 standings. I will mention it in "optimizing isk/h" section later, but for starters they should only be considering about declining the very hardest missions that you really need a very good tank (or dps) to deal with...

I've been playing around with EFT and it seems that while beams do more DPS on paper, fitting beams seem to be very hard because of cap usage, weak tracking (even more so with low skills) and hard to fit (again harder with low skills)
Based on the suggestions here and I think I like Whiteknight's fit best, I downgraded some of the modules that need "long" training and swapped one resists mod for medium repper like in Zhilia Mann's fit, so you are kind of "perma tank" with ability to boost with LAR once medium is not enough, should make things a bit easier for new players...

This is what I came up with:

[Abaddon, very first]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Large Inefficient Armor Repair Unit
Medium Armor Repairer II
N-Type EM Hardener I
N-Type EM Hardener I
N-Type Thermic Hardener I

Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Infrared L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Infrared L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Infrared L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Infrared L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Infrared L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Infrared L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Infrared L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Infrared L

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5

Basically the same fit works for any of the BS, only changes needed are rig slots and ammo, results are a bit different.
Apoc: 332/565 tank, 444 DPS@40km no drones
Abaddon: 296/567 tank, 432 DPS@40km no drones
Armageddon: 277/480 tank, 403 DPS@40km no drones, 566 with T1 Curator's

So apoc and abaddon are pretty much identical, Armageddon has slightly weaker tank, but once you get sentries it will gain a lead in DPS... Obviously things will change once you start to take away from the tank and put more to DPS, and get T2 guns etc, but these are the very first fits.

-Thank you for all the answers.
Ira Infernus
Knights-of-Cydonia
#19 - 2012-03-06 11:52:46 UTC
Ciya wrote:


>Abbie fit<

Basically the same fit works for any of the BS, only changes needed are rig slots and ammo, results are a bit different.
Apoc: 332/565 tank, 444 DPS@40km no drones
Abaddon: 296/567 tank, 432 DPS@40km no drones
Armageddon: 277/480 tank, 403 DPS@40km no drones, 566 with T1 Curator's

So apoc and abaddon are pretty much identical, Armageddon has slightly weaker tank, but once you get sentries it will gain a lead in DPS... Obviously things will change once you start to take away from the tank and put more to DPS, and get T2 guns etc, but these are the very first fits.

-Thank you for all the answers.



If someone isnt skilled for a T2 large armor repairer, or T2 hardeners, or T2 tracking computer, they dont have the skills to run a battleship tank or turrets. Put that in your guide and if anyone follows the advice they wont end up loosing a battleship (The last thing I lost in a mission was a frigate in a L2).

[Apocalypse, New Setup 1]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

Is probably a better starter fit if you are that focused on tank, but tbh if someone hasnt learned to manage cap, tank, and aggro by the time they hit L4's, they will lose the ship regardless of how well it can last in a fire. If more tank or cap is required now, Id forget writing a guide about amarr ships in L4's because you wont have a clue (even this fit is too focused on tank).
Liam Mirren
#20 - 2012-03-06 11:55:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Mirren
Ira Infernus wrote:
If someone isnt skilled for a T2 large armor repairer, or T2 hardeners, or T2 tracking computer, they dont have the skills to run a battleship tank or turrets.


1) Disagreeing there, you don't need mechanics 5 or Hull Upgrades 5 to be efficient, nor do you need Trajectory Analysis 4 (this being lasers)

2) If you want to be cap stable don't get an Abaddon, get an apoc (or navy apoc) instead. Especially as this is aimed at newbies the Apoc is much cheaper and way more forgiving.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
12Next page