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Surrendering means you need to play the deck fee
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Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#21 - 2012-02-24 19:22:58 UTC
Bad idea. A corp could work around this option simply by forming a new corp and leaving a useless alt holding the old corp.

The war Dec mechanics in hi sec are broken as a whole. You can't expect support for your resolution unless it is a compromise that fixes the while problem. Only trying to correct one issue, in a manner that penalizes only one group, is nothing more than trying to force people to play your way.

In other words, try for a better solution that covers all broken issues, not just limited to your needs.
Beat General
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-02-25 13:33:40 UTC
Outz Xacto wrote:
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:

And I still don't understand the reasoning behind this nonsense that war should only be consensual. War is rarely a consensual concept.


Honestly, its because this is a game and CCP wants more than a handful of people to play it. That's why there are the different sec status areas, so people who think consensual war is stupid can go to a place where that is stupid, but they can still pander to a player base that doesn't want to always be hitting dscan.


Sorry to ruin your party.

But EvE online has been the ruthless PvP centered game for almost a decade. Only recently has this tactic of dodging wardecs become not an exploit. Most likely an oversight from CCP.

Keep talking about different play styles and letting players do what they "want" to do. If somebody can't accept the fact that they will be at the risk of attack anywhere they are... They are playing the wrong game. EvE rewards those who are tough, if you want hand holding wimpy **** all the other MMOs are that way. ------->
Lharanai
Fools of the Blue Oyster
#23 - 2012-03-02 22:39:29 UTC
Relaxing in LowSec...no war dec BS there

The wardec system is broken, lets face it. I don't blame the deccers, they use the mechanism provided by CCP to have fun, and that is their right as paying customers.

I blame the mechanisms that allows a minority of customers to negatively influence the fun experience of a majority of customers.

EVE is not RealLife, EVE is a game, so please don't compare it with RL...we have no choice being in RL but we have a choice being in EVE.

Seriously, don't take me serious, I MEAN IT...seriously
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#24 - 2012-03-03 06:00:36 UTC
High sec pvp sucks, anyone that actually wants to do real pvp will leave highsec in a heart beat. Theres a road to pvp everyone thats wants it follows. Just remember to have your game face on, the first gate will be camped by pirates.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
BringerMC
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-03-03 07:40:30 UTC
My only issue is that people say high sec wars are not pvp or meaningless. I can agree yes sometimes as a merc you get hired to punch in the face of a bunch of carebears that another group of carebears is angry at. That comes with the job though. Griefers give high sec wars bad names because of all the stupid corp hopping and having more neut logi than combat ships.

High Sec wars can be challenging and has a ton of rules that make it even more complicated than lowsec or nullsec. You can pretty much never use smartbombs, no way to combat neut logi until it gets involved, Can't call in blues if you need backup. Can't hot drop an unsuspecting enemy.

Not saying High Sec is Elite, it is far from it as is all the others,just saying each part of space has its own problem sets and are pretty equal. Seen many lowsec corps beat up on the carebear corp that thought they could live in lowsec. Seen nullsec BLOPs fleets target the carebear running the Sanctums. People always go for the soft target if it is available.

SYnc Vir, faction warfare is a perfect example as my times spent in FW there were many people who a lot of the time that were just chasing mission runners; or the guy that hops into the enemy hisec and goes and blows up a few miners. Yes I know enemy navy that only webs you...so scary. Normally you all give that guy a pat on the back.

I enjoy being a merc its a nice change of pace from nullsec blobs or having carriers dropped on my fleet by the resident pirate corp in lowsec. To say real pvp is only in lowsec or nullsec is a lie.

Join **The Ghost Division **Today! Because Pac-man ghosts driving Panzers can't be beat.
Ahrieman
Codex Praedonum
Divine Damnation
#26 - 2012-03-03 11:11:33 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
T0RT0ISE wrote:
Lol high sec elite pvp

Roll

It's not perfect, but it's a lot more fun than most of what I've seen happen in low/null. Well, it would be if CCP would fix wardecs so that they actually meant something.


I've pretty much always lived in low sec and I get plenty of consensual and non consensual pvp opportunities. NPC null can be a very dynamic place to pvp depending on the region you live in. I have a suspicion that you are afraid to leave the safety corridor of high sec - that's why it's "more fun."

Solo Rifter since 2009
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#27 - 2012-03-03 12:30:27 UTC
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Buruk Utama wrote:
Stop war decking carebears and head out to consensual pvp in null/low.


Concensual war. Because that makes a lot of sense in practically all cases.


War is always consensual. Involuntary war is impossible as you need aggressor AND defender for a war. Else it may become a slaughter or an annexation, but not a war. ;-)

Remove insurance.
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
#28 - 2012-03-05 19:05:30 UTC
Beat General wrote:
Outz Xacto wrote:
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:

And I still don't understand the reasoning behind this nonsense that war should only be consensual. War is rarely a consensual concept.


Honestly, its because this is a game and CCP wants more than a handful of people to play it. That's why there are the different sec status areas, so people who think consensual war is stupid can go to a place where that is stupid, but they can still pander to a player base that doesn't want to always be hitting dscan.


Sorry to ruin your party.

But EvE online has been the ruthless PvP centered game for almost a decade. Only recently has this tactic of dodging wardecs become not an exploit. Most likely an oversight from CCP.

Keep talking about different play styles and letting players do what they "want" to do. If somebody can't accept the fact that they will be at the risk of attack anywhere they are... They are playing the wrong game. EvE rewards those who are tough, if you want hand holding wimpy **** all the other MMOs are that way. ------->


EvE has ruthless pvp, but is not only this. EvE has risks, but it is not only pvp. EvE has rewards for those who are tough, but does not only reward those who are tough. EvE has wimpy hand holding, but is not only wimpy hand holding.

You see what you seem to fail to grasp is, this isn't your game that everyone will play on your terms, its vast and has many ways to be played, while some of what you say may capture some of the elements, it is not all of the elements and certainly is not the business model that CCP would adopt as its end all be all for the game if they want to increase subscribers.

TL:DR
Not everyone plays in your area of the sandbox.
Kat Bandeis
Trinity Industries Corp.
#29 - 2012-03-05 19:37:34 UTC
Don't wardec carebear corps and you'll get people willing to fight. Why is this such a difficult concept?
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
#30 - 2012-03-05 19:55:16 UTC
Kat Bandeis wrote:
Don't wardec carebear corps and you'll get people willing to fight. Why is this such a difficult concept?


Cause you're supposed to play how they want you to.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#31 - 2012-03-05 23:37:22 UTC
Kat Bandeis wrote:
Don't wardec carebear corps and you'll get people willing to fight. Why is this such a difficult concept?


Because War Deccing Miners and Mission Runners and complaining they all drop corp or wont undock makes your epeen grow?

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#32 - 2012-03-07 04:56:57 UTC
Faction standing loss for surrendering would stop people doing it.
It should be lost from who ever you have the highest standing with.
Eve is about getting some isk and then getting that isk blown up.
No point earning it if you don't pvp it away. There is no other end game in eve.

Sure run missions and do industry, everyone does it - but whats the point of collecting all that isk if you don't have the odd war?
Isk has no purpose other than fund war.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-03-07 05:39:18 UTC
Kat Bandeis wrote:
Don't wardec carebear corps and you'll get people willing to fight. Why is this such a difficult concept?


The War decced us a while back and discovered we were using alpha ships against their logis who turn red when they shoot at other targets.

So they retracted the war.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Sahara Uhuru
#34 - 2012-03-07 11:00:58 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Faction standing loss for surrendering would stop people doing it.
It should be lost from who ever you have the highest standing with.
Eve is about getting some isk and then getting that isk blown up.
No point earning it if you don't pvp it away. There is no other end game in eve.

Sure run missions and do industry, everyone does it - but whats the point of collecting all that isk if you don't have the odd war?
Isk has no purpose other than fund war.



Just 'cause you are too unimaginative to think of other things to do with your ISK doesn't mean that's true for everyone else.
Some just collect ISK to have it. Others Just need ever more ISK to invest it in bigger ventures. Or buy every ship they can fly, always skilling for new ones.

And there's always pvp without war to be had. So just because you like to have pewpew and lose ships while having it doesn't mean you have to like being decced.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#35 - 2012-03-07 11:37:45 UTC
Sahara Uhuru wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
Faction standing loss for surrendering would stop people doing it.
It should be lost from who ever you have the highest standing with.
Eve is about getting some isk and then getting that isk blown up.
No point earning it if you don't pvp it away. There is no other end game in eve.

Sure run missions and do industry, everyone does it - but whats the point of collecting all that isk if you don't have the odd war?
Isk has no purpose other than fund war.



Just 'cause you are too unimaginative to think of other things to do with your ISK doesn't mean that's true for everyone else.
Some just collect ISK to have it. Others Just need ever more ISK to invest it in bigger ventures. Or buy every ship they can fly, always skilling for new ones.

And there's always pvp without war to be had. So just because you like to have pewpew and lose ships while having it doesn't mean you have to like being decced.


People in FW do all that while at war 24/7.
We buy all the ships, books, invest in bigger ventures - so it is obvious that I am not the unimaginative one here.

Everyone is training skills and getting new ships - even while at war. Skill training doesn't stop and Jita doesn't close when you get decced so I don't understand how training and wanting ships is effected.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Diablo Ex
Nocturne Holdings
#36 - 2012-03-07 12:53:33 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Faction standing loss for surrendering would stop people doing it.
It should be lost from who ever you have the highest standing with.
Eve is about getting some isk and then getting that isk blown up.
No point earning it if you don't pvp it away. There is no other end game in eve.

Sure run missions and do industry, everyone does it - but whats the point of collecting all that isk if you don't have the odd war?
Isk has no purpose other than fund war.



Right.... The lifeblood of EvE is new players, I can see it now.
Few people would ever leave the NPC Corp, the ones who do are immediately "decced and either bled dry or lose what little standings they have. The vast majority would simply ragequit. Old players will get bored, and the "winners" will be alone with everything on an empty server asking where is everyone?

It's the "Circle of Life", EvE is a game, but it still must follow some basic RL rulez.
Predators hunt for prey, Prey are hunted by predators.
A ballance must be made for the chain to be stable.
Too many predators and they starve for lack of prey.
Too many carebears and the resources they feed upon can't support the population.

tl:dr - Don't be so greedy!!!

Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
#37 - 2012-03-07 18:33:04 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Faction standing loss for surrendering would stop people doing it.
It should be lost from who ever you have the highest standing with.
Eve is about getting some isk and then getting that isk blown up.
No point earning it if you don't pvp it away. There is no other end game in eve.

Sure run missions and do industry, everyone does it - but whats the point of collecting all that isk if you don't have the odd war?
Isk has no purpose other than fund war.



No. Not everyone runs missions, and those avoiding war decs also do not only run missions. Faction losses as you would have imposed on people is arbitrary and forces a particular method of play that isn't necessary nor game enhancing for the community as a whole.

Also you're basically saying two concepts are completely dependent of eachother and only eachother. I doubt you would find much argument that eve can be about making isk and having it get blown up. This is not the only thing eve has to offer.

TL;DR
Tunnel visioned game play makes for a boring game.
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