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Crucible Big Time POS NERF
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#41 - 2012-03-01 11:19:12 UTC
If the Corp is active, all they would need to do to keep the tower from going pop, is drop fuel into it, every so often. Enough to run it for an hour.

That would reset the timer; hence the 2 week/month before a tower being offline makes it vulnerable to [stuff]

Yes, it bumps their costs a little. I have no problem with that.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#42 - 2012-03-01 15:24:29 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:

Small pos fuel costs went up just the same.

How can anyone say it went down?



Yuppers.

And no 'saving fuel' anymore by offlining Mods and Arrays, etc. Uses MAX FUEL 24/7

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#43 - 2012-03-01 15:48:31 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
If the Corp is active, all they would need to do to keep the tower from going pop, is drop fuel into it, every so often. Enough to run it for an hour.


Or maybe a reduced consumption mode, where it burns 1/2/4 blocks per hour (and 1 charter/hr in hi-sec) but supplies zero PG/CPU, which keeps it from being un-anchored.

It would mean a cost of about 40M/mo to keep a large tower spare hanging around, but would enforce active ownership of the tower.

And it might not be that difficult to code.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#44 - 2012-03-02 18:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Jastra wrote:
Surely an abandoned tower with no shields ought to be salvageable with a salvager. At least this would make it a viable in game profession as well as clearing the VAST number of moons with dead POS's on them (Juujatsi or something, I checked and about 30% of the large number of moons had an unshielded POS- so good iskies for a salvager!!

Or a new skill that allows control tower hacking. I'm thinking prerequisites Hacking 5, Anchoring 5, and maybe Starbase Defense Management 5, new skill could be Starbase Security Override. Once you hack through the security you can unanchor, steal contents, etc. Could even make higher levels needed for larger towers. Level 5 for faction towers.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#45 - 2012-03-02 19:33:49 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Revolution Rising wrote:

Small pos fuel costs went up just the same.

How can anyone say it went down?



Yuppers.

And no 'saving fuel' anymore by offlining Mods and Arrays, etc. Uses MAX FUEL 24/7

A small tower used to burn 33% as much fuel as a large tower. They now burn 25% of the fuel that a large tower uses. Combine that with the slight changes to volumes of fuel components per 40 block run with what a large tower, even with only 50% PG/CPU use the over all fuel cost is lower. Maybe not in isk as with the PI changes many of the fuel materials cost more. but ignoring the price increase of PI products which would have raised POS fuel costs without the fuel block conversion. The over all fuel consumption is less. Even considering the fuel savings from offlining modules. unless you off lined everything in which case why use a large tower.

Small towers got this benefit plus the benefit of reducing fuel requirements from 33% of a large tower down to 25% which makes them way cheaper to run now. Heavy Water is extremely cheap and Liquid Ozone consumption was so low on a small tower that the fuel savings from offlining modules was minimal as they could not support many modules.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#46 - 2012-03-02 20:43:05 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Revolution Rising wrote:

Small pos fuel costs went up just the same.

How can anyone say it went down?



Yuppers.

And no 'saving fuel' anymore by offlining Mods and Arrays, etc. Uses MAX FUEL 24/7

A small tower used to burn 33% as much fuel as a large tower. They now burn 25% of the fuel that a large tower uses. Combine that with the slight changes to volumes of fuel components per 40 block run with what a large tower, even with only 50% PG/CPU use the over all fuel cost is lower. Maybe not in isk as with the PI changes many of the fuel materials cost more. but ignoring the price increase of PI products which would have raised POS fuel costs without the fuel block conversion. The over all fuel consumption is less. Even considering the fuel savings from offlining modules. unless you off lined everything in which case why use a large tower.

Small towers got this benefit plus the benefit of reducing fuel requirements from 33% of a large tower down to 25% which makes them way cheaper to run now. Heavy Water is extremely cheap and Liquid Ozone consumption was so low on a small tower that the fuel savings from offlining modules was minimal as they could not support many modules.


I'm too lazy and tired to crunch numbers, but I do know I'm using a heck of a lot more fuel in the same Medium Tower (not small) than I ever have. And I've always 'generated' my own fuel.

Not really that important. It's just a "Welcome to EVE Online" Thing for me at this point. Lol

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Salcon Cliff
Zephyr Corp
#47 - 2012-03-02 21:36:51 UTC
In the old model, the Sm POS used 1 robotics an hour. In the new fuel system, it uses 0.25 robotics and hour. At 50k per robo, that is 27m less than before fuel blocks.

The small tower now uses 1 less mech part (savings of about 2.5 mil per month) and two less O2 (a 100k savings or so).

So, requirement-wise, on the PI side of things, you save around 30 mil from what it would have cost to use the old fuels (small towers)

Now, lets assume you used NO grid or cpu. Your monthly non-iso water cost is 37.5 x 400 +37.5 * 90 (ozone and HW, respectively) x 24 x 30, or about 13.2 mil.

The decrease in PI is about 17 mil more than the increase in water product cost, and that is based on a NO GRid/CPU scenario.

If your cost is going up, it is probably because you are paying a premium for fuel.
TravisWB
#48 - 2012-03-04 14:37:09 UTC
Well I guess the real problem to this POS nerf has only been touched once or twice in this thread and the problem is that hisec PI has been nerfed so bad that it is pointless to waste time doing it.

Cheap and easy PI fuel components are what made the small hobby POS' possible in the first place and CCP has taken that away.
I haven't wasted the time to figure out what the F is wrong with the Ice mining part of the equation but something is screwy there too.

This game is being run by those that dwell in null and what happens in Empire is intentionally being nerfed to the detriment of those of us that intend to never go to null and only rarely visit lowsec.

The entry point of the game is getting harder, less rewarding and less interesting.

Good moves CCP. What?
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#49 - 2012-03-04 19:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolodymyr
The only reason you are getting away with running an undefended POS in highsec is because you know for a fact it won't get shot, and then have a 24 hour window to put up guns when a wardeck happens.

It's not eh fuel blocks that are the problem, it's the wardeck mechanics that allow people to set up anything undefended in eve.

TravisWB wrote:
Well I guess the real problem to this POS nerf has only been touched once or twice in this thread and the problem is that hisec PI has been nerfed so bad that it is pointless to waste time doing it.

...

This game is being run by those that dwell in null and what happens in Empire is intentionally being nerfed to the detriment of those of us that intend to never go to null and only rarely visit lowsec.


It's called Risk vs Reward. Go into lowsec and set up a customs office. Then you can dodge the taxes. BUT it comes with some risk that you will have to fight for something valuable.

Or make friends with some lowsec people that are willing to let you do PI at lower taxes. Pirate

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544
Velicitia
XS Tech
#50 - 2012-03-04 20:01:48 UTC
Wolodymyr wrote:

It's not eh fuel blocks that are the problem, it's the wardeck mechanics that allow people to set up anything undefended in eve.


at least in hisec. TBH, once the fuel blocks went live, I just turned on the tower's guns to burn the extra PG... not that they're really "needed" in HS (seriously, a few hardeners and no one wants to shoot it for some reasonRoll)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#51 - 2012-03-05 11:19:48 UTC
TravisWB wrote:


This game is being run by those that dwell in null and what happens in Empire is intentionally being nerfed to the detriment of those of us that intend to never go to null and only rarely visit lowsec.

The entry point of the game is getting harder, less rewarding and less interesting.

Good moves CCP. What?



Yeah. NullBears can get a Storyline reward of a 875,000,000 Mining Forman Mindlink.....and they say "INCURSIONS PAY TOO MUCH".

And who was the Forum Idiot claiming you could make 120,000,000 an hour Lvl IV Missioning yesterday in GD ? Sheesh...................

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#52 - 2012-03-05 15:50:42 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Yeah. NullBears can get a Storyline reward of a 875,000,000 Mining Forman Mindlink.....and they say "INCURSIONS PAY TOO MUCH".

And who was the Forum Idiot claiming you could make 120,000,000 an hour Lvl IV Missioning yesterday in GD ? Sheesh...................


That storyline is offered in highsec as well (shipyard theft), where I'd dare say most of the mindlinks come from. Certainly where I've gotten all of mine. And it only costs so much because CCP added more lvl IV storylines so people are getting the mission less often.

TLDR; Incursions pay too much
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