EVE General Discussion

I agree on Cyrus' idea. The dps is measured anyways to determine which fleet has won the contest. Show us a graph in the end (i don't think it would be a good idea to show it while the contest is going on). xD


Incursion Rewards

Incursion have to be rewarding. The intention was to get PVE solo pilots into fleets. Actually this works quite well in my eyes. You get to know miners, mercenaries, 0.0- & wh-pilots, pirates... I saw a lot of people go to another corp to move further. So the average reward for an incursion-pilot should be 50% above the income of a mission-runner.


Vanguards/balancing

I think the reward for running vanguards is not to high. The vanguards are always 'overrun', if you're not in a specialized 'shiny' fleet you get about 60-90m/hour. So if you actually want to 'nerf' the income of vanguards there should be at least a lot of more sites in a system (or more incursions) or income will fall behind a mission runner.

Of course Assaults should be more rewarding (25% above vanguards) and so the Headquarters (50% above vanguards) to equate the long form-up time and the risk.


Blitzing
I don't mind specialized fleets to win a contest, their investment into the fleet should be rewarded (and they fall behind in other site-types). But completing sites in half of the time of a normal fleet is just too much. Participating in such a fleet will get you up to 150m/h. I guess that's the reason why some people got so jealous they tried to shut down every incursion.

NCO:
One "big target" at a decent distance that has to be done to counter legion/sleipnir fleets. Or Mara Paelos to increase site-time.

OTA:
More Neut (Otuni Mesen) to counter 6-0-Basilisk

I highly doubt that even a perfect fleet under perfect conditions can do 190m/h in vanguards atm. But that's anyway not the numbers I'm referring to.
To give you numbers I would balance vanguards at 80m/h for normal fleets, specialized fleets should not be able to earn more than 120m/h. So for Assaults it would be 100m/h and headquarter 120m/h. Unfortunately that's not as easy to achieve as to write it down.

And I mean realistic numbers of ISK/h including form-up time, bio-breakes, restocking ore, warping from site to site, re-filling fleet, travelling, waiting for site-respawn and have some fun in your fleets. Not that 'oh i can do an OTA in 4mins, that's 150m/h'. A mission runner just gets a mission and 'runs'. That's boring but rewarding, too (beyond 80m/h with 'blitzing').


Oh well, I missed one important point that anyone already mentioned in this thread for sure:
Re-balance the Assault-Sites NCN. They take far longer than the other two, need a special fleet-setup and come up with more risk (disconnect of a basilik on cruiser-side for example). At least cut a pocket or so.

My bad mate. I read that as HQ = 2xVG rewards.
Yes, so you are basically talking about lowering the vanguard max payout to a bit over the payout of current normal fleets WITHOUT penalizing the normal fleets.
Basically: Lower the max payout, while preventing the average payout of going down. Overrule the proportionality between normal fleet payouts and high end fleet payouts.

That's gonna a tough nut to crack game wise.

And then otherwise scale this up to HQ's and assaults. Buffing them.
+1 I concur!

PS: 15 sites an hour is doable. Just not for any longer than 2 hours, realistically. You "just" need a good fleet in an empty _small_ system with a very lucky site generation. Like the time when nothing, but NCO's spawned for our fleet for an hour straight.

I actually filled out a bug report on the stacking of NCN's to developers suggesting the cutting of 1 room as a solution... got a reply simular to "feature working as intended". He further suggested I complain err I mean make the suggestion in the Forums so I doubt they'll do it.
What really pisses me off is the cruiser side spawn of 3 OR 4 MARA in NCN's... they do ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE... MOVE OUT LIKE 100K AWAY & TAKE FOREVER TO KILL (ALMOST LONGER THEN AN ENTIRE NCS SITE SOMETIMES) DUE TO ALL THE REPPING... if it happens in the first room then your better of finishing the BS side & warping off

Dear CCP, I cannot fathom why there should be an nerf to vanguards, or incursions at all. They are the best tool highsec have to get a good fleet action. I'm more hoping you would continue to a new chapter of incursions, making more sites, even harder and more rewarding content.

On a sidenote, incursions have given me more time to delve into other aspects of the game, like research, market games, politics etc. wich i normally wouldnt care for, since i would be mindlessly be ratting or missioning solo to achive the isk i need for my pvp alt.

(Got bored on page 2 but decided to post uneducated opinion anyway)

I think Incursions should have a real impact on the space that they occur in, rather than just being random NPC spawns for PVErs..

Remove Concord and GCC / security status loss for all Incursion systems for the duration of the Incursion.

Naturally Concord would advise pilots to avoid these systems but reward loyalty points for help in thwarting the blight (goes for RP vote).

The problem with vanguards is their payout versus their size is too big. You have tiny fleets that can pump out lots of isk and in a relatively short amount of time. Then, on the next level up on the sites, you get a drastic boost to the number of hoops to jump through without a relational boost to the isk.

What really needs to happen is a very minor fixes that will go long ways. As many of us know, it is rather difficult to manage very large numbers of people effectively. What CCP really needs to do is make HQ's have the vanguard Isk/hour. And keep the HQ's just as long. So basically, Headquarters need a massive boost to their payout per hour.

Headquarter sites are so long and require so many people the fleets take a long time to form. On top of that, people drop in fleets left and right which requires the fleet to stop what it's doing and get new members in which will take a good bit of time. In contrast, Vanguard fleets typically run 1 heavy with a small wait list. This allows for the fleet to run nearly non stop through sites.

The problem with vanguards is there is too much isk too fast. You just need to install more time before payouts. That's basically what people are saying. Doing my changes to headquarters will naturally balance the incursions because the pay outs will still take a long time due to how long it takes to do sites, form fleets, and maintain fleet size and composition.

Then you scale the sites down with isk value for time and value with headquarters being the top of the pyramid!

An incursion should absolutely hurt the local population. And if you were really worried about the local population you would kill the MS as soon as it spawned.

I'll give my insight as a former incursion runner.

Vanguards, holy **** they need to be nerfed, 20-30% payout decrease as well as an increase in the number of battleships per site. Preferably Outuni Mesens (as they are the bane of AS/HQ runners, so they should be for VGs as well). Vanguards need to not be repetitive as well, so make them more like the final room of an NCN (Which is completely random) to make them more entertaining.

Assaults, these are the bastard child of Incursions, poor money for alot of effort. I suggest buffing the Payout of them from 26mil and 5k LP to 29mil and 6k LP. On top of this, make the sites more random, I found it incredibly boring as a Logistics pilot. More random spawns, I would love for an Outuni spawn not on a spreadsheet to destroy some spaceships.

Headquarters, these were my favorite sites, very sociable, very hard. However, after 4 months of running them they became EZMODE. Please make the NPCs more difficult, more random, and much harder to kill. I used to test how low I could take my Logistics; I managed to complete a TPPH with 4 Basilisks (Tengu booster), NRF with 5 (4 Basilisks 1 Scimitar) TCRC with 7 (5 Basilisks 2 Scimitars). This is far too easy, make them much more difficult than they currently are, if I have to reduce the "safety" of the fleet to make it hard some work needs to be done.

Motherships, THESE SITES ARE FAR TOO EASY FOR 80 PEOPLE. Remove TRTs, make dangerous Sanshas constantly spawn, for example Outuni Mesens, Arnon Epithalamus, Deltole Tegmentums, so on and so forth.

I am in before I get flamed, I used to run all 4 types of sites vOv

It was meant as a sarcastic comment to his suggestion of HQ.payout = 2 * VG.payout while I misread and failed at my calculations.
So just ignore that.

edit: Holy ****, does the forum save drafts of posts now!? Omg awesome!