These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

solution to get outnumbered fleets into fight instead of running away
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-03-04 00:45:15 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
the solution to OP's issue is colloquially referred to as "bubble" - its various variations do a very fine job of preventing outnumbered fleets from running away.


I disagree and I fly bubblers all the time.

It is extremely easy to lock down a single target or a few targets with tackle. Scram + bubble or web + bubble and they aren't getting out anytime soon.

But try locking down a very common roaming group setup such as 10x BCs. If they jump into you they decloak 12-15km from your 20km bubble, very easy to get away.

If they are off a gate you can bubble them all sure, but you gotta get right up to their faces to bubble them so you get one 20km bubble and your light dictor is dead. MWD C/BC go 1,500-3,000 m/s so 20km means you tackle them for 10-15 seconds max? That won't cut it. Logi don't help much, for some reason light dictors didn't fill out the proper paperwork to get T2 resists and their base hp and pg don't cut it at all. Heavy dictors are too slow (-90% speed penalty, yay) and too expensive to spend on tackle.

So I argue that the role of group tackling is a sorely needed one. More bubble types would be nice, larger bubbles would be nice, a ship designed around locking down a group of enemies and living for more than 5 seconds would be nice. And I say this as someone who will die to what I propose many, many times.
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#22 - 2012-03-04 01:08:02 UTC
You're assuming that eve fights are like pokemon battles where the fleets sit next to eachother and take it in turns to shoot. There are plenty of options you can use if you're outnumbered.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Serene Repose
#23 - 2012-03-04 01:59:56 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
John Eisenauge wrote:
two equal fleets - one with 2 logis, the other without.

All your numbers are based on complete misunderstanding of what equal means, and what you are trying to change is the simple fact that the majority of people are risk averse cowards.

Sometimes...just sometimes...being risk averse = efficiency.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
#24 - 2012-03-04 02:03:13 UTC
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

Mine smart. Mine safe. Purchase your mining permit today...... www.minerbumping.com
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-03-04 02:18:09 UTC
Remove local.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#26 - 2012-03-04 02:25:09 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Remove local.


Yeah great idea then you won't find anyone at all, unless of course you are scanning 24/7. Go back to your wormhole.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-03-04 04:57:06 UTC
lol at the idea CCP needs to fix your problem.

Catch them and you win.

Only question that comes to mind that any human will think: Whoa! Those odds are beyond my ability, I am not taking that chance! which is not cowardice. Would youscale a mountain without safety gear? No? Ah, that answers the question...you don't think you would win the attempt, so you don't engage in it even though there are other people that do climb mountains without safety gear.

tl;dr aspect

You determine if you are successful or not successful. Feel comefortable fighting outnumbered? Then you have the better chance of winning. Don't think you can win...hey, even I know I won't win a game of poker against a proffessional because I lack experience.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#28 - 2012-03-04 08:42:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ocih
I'm sure you mean well OP but EVE is an "intell" game where every battle is decided before anything is locked. That's not going to change. Most Sov battles are coordinating evac. If you can't rope someone in to a battle with the threat of extinction, I don't see anything else working.

- Add On. Also, EVE battles need to happen "NOW". In truth, most times you see people run, they aren't fleeing, they are reshipping. By the time they get thier fleet together that they trust, the enemy is gone. Gone because they know they won't beat that "other" fleet when it has made an Intell based fleet. Most to all battles are roaming fleets vs roaming fleets and they just don't happen that often.

The best way to promote PvP is to feed people kills. Give a fleet cheap kills, watch them get smug, then drop the real fleet on them. Now, who wants to be the victim?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2012-03-04 08:49:18 UTC
The problem with many people is they look at numbers rather than what they are flying.
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#30 - 2012-03-04 08:58:17 UTC
at least the numerically advantaged side is usually smart enough to bubble themselves so they can't run

i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling.
Jalmari Huitsikko
Avanto
Hole Control
#31 - 2012-03-04 11:10:34 UTC
nerf scimitar
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-03-04 14:58:15 UTC
Jovan Geldon wrote:
You are working under the false assumption that every fight should be fair
This.


EvE PvP isn't about even matches or fairness. Why risk your ship and your fleetmembers ships on a fair fight when you can instead destroy someone weaker? Unnecessary risk is unnecessary.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#33 - 2012-03-04 16:45:39 UTC
I'm failing to see how a fleet with ****** composition is "equal" to a fleet with good composition, and the idea that the game should disincentivize good fleet composition just so that people who can't put together a proper fleet will fight is not exactly appealing.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#34 - 2012-03-04 16:48:41 UTC
Being risk aversed is more fun. How is that to be dealt with?

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Tarikan
Preload Thorium
Insidious.
#35 - 2012-03-04 16:49:16 UTC
Problem i see when your fleet is about to fight a bigger fleet is that the FC pussies out, or doesn't want to deal with it, why? Your killboard might look bad if you don't win. start flying fleets of your own, maybe back it up that ships are reimbursed, and most of all, Logi win fleet fights...too many fleets don't roam around with them.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#36 - 2012-03-04 20:21:44 UTC
If there needs to be any tweaking done, I might see an argument for making Logistics ships being made a little easier to jam out... which would promote a better balance between repping and jamming in a fleet or gang.


Small fleet vs. larger fleet tactics, all other things being roughly equal, revolves around having the speed and coordination to draw portions of the larger fleet away from the main body so that they can be dealt with.

Run a bit, draw their tackle and faster ships after you, kill them, repeat.


Larger fleets in turn need to concentrate on supporting each other, and being coordinated enough to not let their faster vessels get isolated from their support while still being quick enough to get in your tackles on the faster fleet. Often this involves using your numbers advantage by having your fleet move to encircle and detain the enemy long enough to bring your strength to bear.

I'd rather not see this changed to reflect an unrealistic battle environment, the end result of which is a dumbing down of the advantages that a good use of tactics provides.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Previous page12