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CSM7 Vote Match! is now live!

First post
Author
Algia Knightstorm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-03-03 22:26:16 UTC
Hey it told me to vote for who I was already going to vote for. Hail Mittens, King of Space.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-03-03 22:32:23 UTC
i strongly disagreed with every option and got corebloodbrothers 59%
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-03-03 22:34:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Now I voted "i don't know" on every option and my options landed 50% on every candidate lol
Hustomte
Veritex Industrial Inc.
#24 - 2012-03-03 23:08:18 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
...Rant...

You trollin' bro? Roll

...Signature...

Akuma Gouki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-03-03 23:43:31 UTC
So Dovinian is legitimately the closest match to my own views (at 66%). Does this still mean that if I vote for him, I'm participating in a voting bloc and my vote should not be counted?
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#26 - 2012-03-04 01:26:50 UTC
These questions are very poorly worded, betraying a skewed agenda. For example:

  • The industry side of Eve needs more game design attention and should be a priority over all other areas of the game that need improvements.
  • Improving low sec is the single most important thing for CCP to do and should be a priority over all other areas of the game that need improvements.
  • 0.0 is most in need of further development, and should be a priority over all other areas of the game that need improvements.

  • These are terrible questions. Answering honestly, you must disagree unless you think it is absolutely the most important thing no matter what, overriding all other concerns no matter the damage it may cause. The questions should be

  • The industry side of Eve needs more game design attention
  • Lowsec game mechanics need more game design attention
  • 0.0 needs continued serious game design attention


  • Other questions, like

  • The war-dec system is unbalanced in favour of the agressor and should be changed to fix this.

  • betray a clear bias in opinion. For instance, if you are like me and believe that wars and war mechanics need serious attention, but KNOW that wars are absolutely not skewed in the aggressor's advantage... then there are no questions to show this. You just have to disagree.

    Terrible questionnaire. Get someone to write you better questions.

    Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

    Ursula LeGuinn
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #27 - 2012-03-04 02:02:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn
    I disagree, Widdershins. Gradated responses are well suited to counterbalance the all-or-nothing questions. For example:

    Improving low sec is the single most important thing for CCP to do and should be a priority over all other areas of the game that need improvements.

    • strongly agree = yes, it's the most important thing
    • agree = it's very important, but not the most important
    • no opinion = no opinion
    • disagree = it may be an issue, but shouldn't be a priority
    • strongly disagree = it's a non-issue, not worth addressing

    To maintain a homogeneous answer format, it was necessary to word the questions that way — or else the exact opposite way. With the questions written the way they are, every question can be answered with the "strongly agree, agree, no opinion, disagree, strongly disagree" format.

    "The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia

    Kid Delicious
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #28 - 2012-03-04 02:54:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kid Delicious
    Quote:

    Notice: Undefined index: grid in /home/fhlinux130/m/match.eve-csm.com/user/htdocs/step_3.php on line 65

    Fatal error: Call to a member function getQuestions() on a non-object in /home/fhlinux130/m/match.eve-csm.com/user/htdocs/step_3.php on line 36


    Get this fixed asap. (I'm using Firefox 10, with noscript and cookies disabled if that helps.)

    Edit:
    Evidently the site requires cookies. It would be nice if it told you that before you fill out the form and effectively wipe your entries.
    Iam Widdershins
    Project Nemesis
    #29 - 2012-03-04 10:53:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
    Ursula LeGuinn wrote:
    I disagree, Widdershins. Gradated responses are well suited to counterbalance the all-or-nothing questions. For example:

    Improving low sec is the single most important thing for CCP to do and should be a priority over all other areas of the game that need improvements.

    • strongly agree = yes, it's the most important thing
    • agree = it's very important, but not the most important
    • no opinion = no opinion
    • disagree = it may be an issue, but shouldn't be a priority
    • strongly disagree = it's a non-issue, not worth addressing

    To maintain a homogeneous answer format, it was necessary to word the questions that way — or else the exact opposite way. With the questions written the way they are, every question can be answered with the "strongly agree, agree, no opinion, disagree, strongly disagree" format.


    No.

    Edit: Hell no. Seriously. I have no idea why you would say this. You are very wrong.

    That's like going into the hospital with a broken foot and an injured head and the doctor asks you, "On a scale from 1 to 10, is your foot absolutely the only thing wrong with you?"

    Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

    Tarion Awessi
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #30 - 2012-03-04 12:35:41 UTC
    Ursula LeGuinn wrote:
    I disagree, Widdershins. Gradated responses are well suited to counterbalance the all-or-nothing questions. For example:

    Improving low sec is the single most important thing for CCP to do and should be a priority over all other areas of the game that need improvements.

    • strongly agree = yes, it's the most important thing
    • agree = it's very important, but not the most important
    • no opinion = no opinion
    • disagree = it may be an issue, but shouldn't be a priority
    • strongly disagree = it's a non-issue, not worth addressing

    To maintain a homogeneous answer format, it was necessary to word the questions that way — or else the exact opposite way. With the questions written the way they are, every question can be answered with the "strongly agree, agree, no opinion, disagree, strongly disagree" format.

    The problem with that is that when you say that you "Agree" that "improving low sec is the single most important thing for CCP to do, and should have priority over all other areas of the game that need improvements", it doesn't matter whether you agree or strongly agree, you're saying it needs priority over all other areas of the game. That answer scale you're giving doesn't actually relate to the question you used as an example.

    There's no legitimate way to answer that question to say that its important, but not the most important. Its written in an all or nothing format. Its basically a yes or no question. You can interpret the answers differently, but that's contrary to the actual wording of the question.

    If you re-wrote the question to say

    "Low Sec is in need of improvement and should be a priority to CCP" you're opening it up to actually using Likert scale. It actually works the way you think it does. I say I agree, I think it needs work. I say I strongly agree, I really think it needs work.

    Better yet, stop asking two questions at once. You're asking if its broken and if it needs Dev attention. That's two questions. Split it up - "Lowsec is in need of improvement" would be one, and asking candidates to numerically order the issues they think should be a priority would be another.
    Iam Widdershins
    Project Nemesis
    #31 - 2012-03-04 12:41:15 UTC
    Thank you, Tarion. I just submitted an edit to mine to find your reply here. That's basically what I was saying. Why they don't understand this is entirely a mystery to me.

    People are bad, your answer is good, and this questionnaire is dysfunctional and misleading in numerous ways.

    Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

    Xorv
    Questionable Acquisitions
    #32 - 2012-03-04 21:52:33 UTC
    I took a look at this and have to agree with others the questions were in many cases very poor and in some cases clearly biased. This is not a good tool to use to figure out who you should vote for in the next CSM election.

    Fortunately, many of the candidates left notes with their responses, so you can at least use this as a tool to find out what candidates positions are on some issues. However, I would strongly caution against going by the percentages given.
    Iam Widdershins
    Project Nemesis
    #33 - 2012-03-05 06:06:06 UTC
    Xorv wrote:
    I took a look at this and have to agree with others the questions were in many cases very poor and in some cases clearly biased. This is not a good tool to use to figure out who you should vote for in the next CSM election.

    Fortunately, many of the candidates left notes with their responses, so you can at least use this as a tool to find out what candidates positions are on some issues. However, I would strongly caution against going by the percentages given.

    Correct.

    For example, my best percentage match was SkipperMonkey, who is both dumb and terrible. That by itself was enough to set off warning bells.

    Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

    Skye Aurorae
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #34 - 2012-03-05 06:33:51 UTC
    So being the data fiend that I am I scraped the Candidates answers and did some math on the data set:

    Question with the largest disagreement:
    "Medical clone costs should be greatly reduced."

    Question with the most agreement:
    "Mining should be the primary source of raw minerals in Eve."

    We can take all the opinions and define an average opinion for all the questions and then measure how close a candidate is to this, or, how far.

    CSM Candidates Furthest from the norm.
    1) Michael BoltonIII
    2) PsychoBitch
    3) Xenuria
    4) corebloodbrothers
    5) Skippermonkey

    CSM Candidates Closest To the Center.
    1) Skye Aurorae
    2) Blake Armitage
    3) Mu'ad Diib
    4) Korvin
    5) Lyris Nairn

    No this isn't a fix, I can make the data available to those people who want to mess with it.

    You can also define the central opinion based on the answers from currently serving members, then the interesting question is - how do the opinions of the candidates standing compare against the current opinions being represented by the CSM.

    The most disagreement is over the questions
    'Player owned structures should get a major overhaul, even if this means less development time is left for other areas of the game. ' - The current CSM is practically unanimous in suppot, but many of the current candidates disagree.

    'Invention and production should be made more profitable. '
    Again strong support from the current CSM compared with a range of opinions from candidates.

    'Suicide ganking should be a viable tactic and gameplay style. '
    CSM support, vs less support from incoming candidates.

    'Level 5 missions should be available in high security space. '
    The current CSM is strongly against this, but many of the candidates support this.

    And again - the candidates most likely to disagree with the existing CSM:
    1) Michael BoltonIII
    2) Psychobitch
    3) Xenuria
    4) corebloodbrothers
    5) Skippermonnkey

    No change in order there.

    Candidates most likely to come to an agreement with the existing CSM
    1) Blake Armitage
    2) Skye Aurorae
    3) Korvin
    4) Voloses
    5) Trebor Daehdoow


    Skye Aurora is a 7 year old Girl Who Wants to be on the CSM! Unfortunately, the Lawyers say you have to be 21 - oh well.

    Xorv
    Questionable Acquisitions
    #35 - 2012-03-05 09:56:07 UTC
    Skye I'm not sure the value of such data, as candidates positions are not clearly defined by how they respond in terms of agree or disagree. For example take a question on an issue like Local Chat Intel. It was worded to mean removal from the entire game, rather than just Nullsec which is what most in favor of it being removed advocate, so it was already biased more towards the negative, since if I believe Local should go in Null but not in High Sec, I must respond in disagreement. Further that the issue isn't necessarily a simple one, many of the candidates qualified their answer, and it was within those notes more than their response in agreement or disagreement to the question where I found who most closely represented my views.

    In addition the questionnaire doesn't truly scale the importance of one issue over another. Some issues will make or break my support for a candidate, others I might be in disagreement, but ultimately they just do not matter as much. I'm quite sure that's the same for every player. It's also the same for every candidate many of them are likely to focus attention on certain areas or advocate for certain constituencies.

    tl;dr
    Both the quiz's % results and Skye's analysis of data from the quiz are worthless in determining who you should vote for in CSM 7.
    Zixie Draco
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #36 - 2012-03-05 13:13:09 UTC

    So, I've heard the pre polls are saying most of you are getting Skippermonkey hits on your vote match. Don't fight the urge. You know you want to.

    Once again, it's like shooting at the Jita Monument. It just makes sense.

    Would you like a kitten?

    Ciar Meara
    PIE Inc.
    Khimi Harar
    #37 - 2012-03-05 13:24:11 UTC
    Zirse wrote:
    The Mittani wrote:
    You refused to place a link to the comments of each candidate in a concise place on the first page of the site to allow users to opt out of the algorithm, despite all the yowling about looking to provide choices.

    Rational Choice theory - and the offshoot crap it spawns like ~algorithms~ , game theory and such, are tautological nonsense at best, and easily manipulated at worst. Comments are lost, nuance is lost, and the 'hurr we can just find better questions' fails year after year.

    You're not interested in providing an easy place for voters to view commentary on the issues - not without making them jump through hoops of your own devising.


    Sorry, game theory isn't tautological nonsense despite what your law degree might tell you.


    Hehehe, but he is using fancy words, he must know what he is talking about?!

    I like the tool, it at least gives people an insight to what candidates think on certain topics. The comments add allot of subtlety to the affair and provide an additional insight into the motivation behind the choices. This offsets the some very general questions and sweeping statements but then again, very specific questions are equally bad.

    - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]

    Skippermonkey
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #38 - 2012-03-05 13:24:51 UTC
    I ran the vote match and got 83% match for SKIPPERMONKEY

    I'm going to vote for him!

    COME AT ME BRO

    I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

    Skye Aurorae
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #39 - 2012-03-05 13:40:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Skye Aurorae
    Xorv wrote:

    tl;dr
    Both the quiz's % results and Skye's analysis of data from the quiz are worthless in determining who you should vote for in CSM 7.


    It's perfectly possible to extract good results from poor data - I do that every day by data mining twitter.

    just vote with your heart then. vote for the cutest lil' candidate

    Skye Aurora is a 7 year old Girl Who Wants to be on the CSM! Unfortunately, the Lawyers say you have to be 21 - oh well.

    Qin Shi Huang
    Doomheim
    #40 - 2012-03-05 14:04:01 UTC
    Top match is Hans Jagerblitzen (69%) and Trebor. Bottom match is The Mittani and Psychobitch. I was going to vote for Trebor, but now I'll have a look at what this Jagerblitzen has to say.

    .