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Crime & Punishment

 
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WhichWayDidHeGO?

Author
Garven Dreis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-03-02 23:18:55 UTC
Taylor Schaffle wrote:
I'm aware of how to improve security. [Removed tears]


In that case, I don't see the issue. Anything else would be a suggestion.

Terrible Poster Runner-up 2014

Taylor Schaffle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-03-03 06:21:37 UTC
Garven Dreis wrote:
Taylor Schaffle wrote:
I'm aware of how to improve security. [Removed tears]


In that case, I don't see the issue. Anything else would be a suggestion.




Suggestions was really what I was looking for but I was also pissed that I noticed there was no hangar log. I would really like to put this to CCP's attention. Even though i know they probably won't care...
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-03-03 10:05:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Shrinkage is a fact of life for every RL business - 1-2% of sales is considered normal in retail which is about the same as the operating margin for most ventures (so they could almost double their profit if they would manage to eliminate shrinkage).

Just learn to plan with it:

You already did have more restricted access permissions for expensive modules which is good.

Next step would be to control how much of the cheap modules you keep stocked in your public hangars - do you really need all 30 warp disruptors in the public hangar or would 10 suffice when you restock every few days?

Remind people about giving back items they have "borrowed" from public hangars (obviously doesn't apply for consumables such as ammo).

Be a little more selective/cautious in your recruitment process (how come you didn't have API keys with sufficient permissions from the get-go?).

Try a more fine-grained permission management ("director can do everything, everyone else can't do anything" only leads to burnout and frustration) and always consider "how much damage could he inflict?" vs "how much isk/time/effort has he invested so far?" when handing out roles.

Keep your eyes open for early signs of burnout or serious discontent. Try to manage these issues before they become threatening.

Investigate the situation and talk to people before yelling "theft" or making accusations. Maybe some director wanted to re-arrange the hangar layout and had to leave half-way through, maybe your industrial director decided it's time to refine all these useless T1 mods for minerals, maybe someone had to borrow an expensive item for a few hours and forgot to return it...
Try to be neutral in your first reactions - "Where did these items go?" as opposed to "Who stole these items ?!?"
Yelling theft early does not only ruin relations with your corp-mates, it can also turn innocent behavior into actual thefts ("if he thinks I'm a thief then I might as well act like one").

Don't trust anyone. You can give other people access to goods without trusting them not to steal anything.
It's a question of mindset and expectations, not of actions. You sound terribly butthurt and the most likely reason for this is that you honestly thought your corp was populated by trustworthy saints only.

but "lock down everything" is probably the worst possible response to a theft that - in your own words - wasn't even significant isk-wise.

.

Ahrieman
Codex Praedonum
Divine Damnation
#24 - 2012-03-03 11:44:06 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:

Try to be neutral in your first reactions - "Where did these items go?" as opposed to "Who stole these items ?!?"
Yelling theft early does not only ruin relations with your corp-mates, it can also turn innocent behavior into actual thefts ("if he thinks I'm a thief then I might as well act like one")


This is very important. I personally wouldn't fall under the above listed psychology, but my mindset would go more like this:

"He keeps accusing us of stealing stuff. Why doesn't he trust us? He's being an a**hole. F*** him! I can't take his sh*t any longer. I'm leaving corp, but just to stick it to him for being such a prick about everything, I'm gonna steal everything I can."

Jumping to accusations will polarize people against you and if the accusations are about theft, those accusations will become self-fulfilling prophecies.


Also, you can still provide lots of access to your members (even the brand new ones) by using Audit Log cans. Then you will be able to track down your thief in the future and exact revenge or post his crime all over C&P.

Solo Rifter since 2009

Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#25 - 2012-03-03 13:24:13 UTC
Taylor Schaffle wrote:
I'm aware of how to improve security.

....snip....


I ran a corp for a few years and we used to maintain a "free stuff" tab in the corp hangar. We used to encourage people to throw stuff in there from rats they looted if they weren't planning on selling/using it.

It was made clear to everyone that "free stuff" meant that there would be no control over what got taken out.

Some people put stuff in, some took stuff out. Every now and then someone took it all and melted it down (I assume). At first this happened on a regular basis, which is unavoidable if you maintain such a hangar, but my attitude was always that if someone needed the isk badly enough to risk stealing it that I would have given it to them anyway.

Later on, we decided to clear out that hangar ourselves because doing nothing about the stuff getting stolen would **** people off. When it started to accumulate we took the stuff out ourselves and melted it down and made ship hulls with the minerals, which we then handed out to people when they did something special or when they lost a ship in PVP. After that the amount of theft dropped and when it did happen I could tell a little white lie (namely that I did it) in order to avoid it affecting morale or starting witch hunts.

T-
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#26 - 2012-03-05 17:33:41 UTC
Taylor Schaffle wrote:
First of all, I must applaud your ignorance. Even though most of what you said was true, it was also truly ignorant.

1) Lol, out of all the people who use logs and know what they do and how they work, I would be one of the top guys to know about it. It's my real life job... All you would have to do to fix a space problem for the logs is to have them overwrite with say a time limit or size limit... These logs can be saved on your system or their servers. It would be smarter to have the game save it on your system though. You think these logs would be so big that they would cause the client on your system to be slow? That is ridiculous. Windows and Unix/Linux logs spit out 50 times or even thousands of times more data than a log would be for a simple hangar or two and I don't see them crashing or slowing any systems on a normal basis. These logs would be child's play on your own system, so don't give me that "data logistics" ****. I'm well aware of the power it takes to process this stuff, and you have blown it WAY out of proportion.

...

Dear Mr. "I log things in RL and know what I'm talking about",

Please help us understand how your client-side logging scheme would work when the thief steals all your stuffs while *your* client is offline.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Silus Morde
#27 - 2012-03-05 17:56:02 UTC
In the real world I have noticed there is a minority that will steal anything that is not nailed to the floor, and to be honest, some of that as well. So why wouldn't they steal in EVE. Just tighten things up.. I suggest the CCP leaves it as is, always a place for criminals in a game like this.. not my style of play but EVE would be ever so boring without thieves, pirates, mercenaries, and gankers. Don't like it when they hit me much but I love the feeling of danger here. my opinion.

Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

Jazzmyn
Dawn's LightP
#28 - 2012-03-06 09:08:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jazzmyn
Taylor Schaffle wrote:
If you can steal in this game, there should AT LEAST be a way for us to clearly see who did it in a log.


Now that would be too easy and ruin all the fun. Theres many ways to find proof who did it and solving a corp theft is actually interesting part of the game. Nearly every wormhole corp i have been in has been robbed in some point, and i almost wait for it to happen, so i can start guessing who is the thief and who worked with him. Solving spaceship thefts can be better than reading Hercule Poirot novel.

Instead of whining about logs that dont exist, u should put some effort in locating the guilty person. Hes out there watching how u are going to respond and probably waiting for another chance to empty your hangars, or WORSE ! Pirate

If u cant be bothered to do this yourself, in exchange of small advance payment i can hop into your corp and root out the rats for ya. To get access to all the relevant information to solve the crime, i do need some director rights Big smile

Fight ! Fight ! Never surrender, never surrender !

Sir Lomax
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
#29 - 2012-03-06 16:24:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Lomax
War Kitten wrote:
Taylor Schaffle wrote:
First of all, I must applaud your ignorance. Even though most of what you said was true, it was also truly ignorant.

1) Lol, out of all the people who use logs and know what they do and how they work, I would be one of the top guys to know about it. It's my real life job... All you would have to do to fix a space problem for the logs is to have them overwrite with say a time limit or size limit... These logs can be saved on your system or their servers. It would be smarter to have the game save it on your system though. You think these logs would be so big that they would cause the client on your system to be slow? That is ridiculous. Windows and Unix/Linux logs spit out 50 times or even thousands of times more data than a log would be for a simple hangar or two and I don't see them crashing or slowing any systems on a normal basis. These logs would be child's play on your own system, so don't give me that "data logistics" ****. I'm well aware of the power it takes to process this stuff, and you have blown it WAY out of proportion.

...

Dear Mr. "I log things in RL and know what I'm talking about",

Please help us understand how your client-side logging scheme would work when the thief steals all your stuffs while *your* client is offline.


What I think would make the OP happy is if every single container that could ever be possibly accessed by more than one person, had a accessable "loot history" that would be stored on the CCP server side.

I'm sure he would respond with "wait wait wait, i'm not saying EVERY container in the game, I just want ship maint bays" But you see once you add just one loot log like that, everyone and thier sister wants it for all of them and has a just as convincing and ascinine reason why. Its a slippery slope that can simply be solved by increasing security.
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