Science & Industry

or a salvo of antimatter for mining your rocks

on a more serious stance than my first post -- I wouldn't be opposed to fixing mining by making the scarcity of minerals matter ... i.e. bring back mineral respawns on Monday and Friday ONLY.

Give miners a reason to want to hold systems, and keep the other guys out instead of the "well Dept 10 is mining here today ... we'll get what we can now, and just wait til tomorrow to get the rest of what we need"

no, not necessarily nullsec.

Hisec is a little touchy (i.e. it's nearly impossible to actually control a system).
Lowsec is possible, but difficult (cynos and the like)
nullsec -- well, this already happens.

Mineral respawns used to be every Monday and Friday and that was it. Prices were actually lower than now (TBH, I think incursions are to blame -- because they're "risk-free" ISK that's pulling miners away from mining).

The point is ... keep reinforcing that everything is intertwined (miners/mfg with no PvP knowledge are *generally* the ones who forget this), and that people have to work together to keep themselves supplied...

I'd like to see mining in Null a lot better, it in theory should be the best mining of all minerals by a wide margin. But improvment in mining needs to be more than just the isks, we are long overdue for new mining equipment and experiences. All other areas of Eve have evolved substantially in the 8 years I've been playing yet mining remains fundamentally the same. And some elements remain broken since their introduction.

The small barges for example. These are practically useless to most miners. Let's get CCP to give us some changes to these ships to make them more interesting. That's just a single example of things we need. Another, how about better mining drones? Or something really radical like mining modules for T3 cruisers?

Another thing about mining is there is no real benefit to being "better" in your real time skills like there is in Pvx. There needs to be a new dynamic mining experience introduced where your actual skill improves the outcome.

The bottom line is mining needs a refresh to make it more fun as well as more profitable.

Issler Dainze
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate

You bring up a good point in that when we come up with our ideas to present to CCP we will need to consider all aspects of the proposal. I'm planning on involving a group of advisers to assist in collecting and refining the ideas and then vetting them with the player base before bring them to the CSM and hopefully then CCP.

Issler

As a miner I have mostly two suggestions to bring to the table:

1. Reduce the skill req for Covetor from Mining Barge 5 to Mining Barge 4.
2. I want to reduce the gains from suicide ganking exhumers using cheap ships.

The unrational skill progression requirement for using the Covetor compared to exhumers is something I do not understand. Perhaps I am a few years late in this debate, but whatever the reason is, it is not working. People are not usig this ship for anything else than building Hulks.

Suicide ganking makes the game more exciting and should remain in the game, but losing an expensive Hulk to a single destroyer is to me just lazy game balance design. I've finally reached the point where I have Hulks to spare, but for the longest time I was completely reliant on my one single Hulk and should I have ever lost it I would surely had just dropped everything and cancelled my subscription. I believe every miner should grind roids for a Hulk using a Retriever (or Covetor) once, its builds character and makes you appreciate what you have, but to do so twice is just Chinese Water Torture. For new miners the setback is too great, with or without the extra insurance. Make roid ganking business expensive business

What does the orca do that you cannot do with a rorq?

Ahh, I have been mining/mfg for a long time now and honestly I love the covetor. It is almost disposable its so damned cheap! When you compare the mining capability Vs a hulk, AT WORST you are losing 15% just from the exhumer skill bonus (and thats if you have exhumer at V). With rigs and 2 mining laser upgrades you can get the mining yield up extremely high and still remain very cheap. I do agree with you that the skill plan needs to be adjusted for the Covetor. By the time you can fly a covetor you can be in a hulk in under a day. That just seems silly.

I agree that CCP won't make broad changes, but a few tweaks here and there might help:

1) Create low/high yield rocks. If a laser normally gets 60m3, a low yield rock would get something like 15, while a high yield rock could get 100.
1a) You could make every rock in 0.9 and 1.0 low yield, since the only risk is from gankers. Bots set up in those systems atleast would not get very good return.
1b) 0.5 to 0.8 could have varying degrees of high to low yield rocks. They could change the graphics of the high yield rocks to distinguish them, so bots would still suffer a disadvantage.
1c) Low sec would have a majority of high yield rocks.
1d) Null sec would have all high yield rocks, perhaps even doubling or tripling the rate.

2) The align rate and warp initiation of mining barges is ridiculous. While gankers might like the fact that even if you're prepared for someone entering your system it will take you 30s to warp out, it doesn't make much sense. I realize EvE space is made of liquid, but it's still something they could change.

3) I agree the training time of going from a covetor to a hulk is silly. Covetors at mining barge 4 seems reasonable.

It boils down to prioritization.

There are certainly ways to make mining more challenging and fun - I read some of those ideas but should that be the priority?


Let say CCP asked for guidance in setting priorities (or didn't as you said you can help them focus whether they ask or not)

Do you go for

1) Revamping wardec mechanics
2) Nullsec experience improvements
3) Changes to the mining system

Now - here is what I think. Changes to the mining system itself is not what impacts miners the most (though they are definately something good and nice to have) but there are many more things which have a bigger impact on miners:

Overall:

1) Use of minerals (e.g. impact of T3 BCs on markets)
2) Bots and bot banning

Highsec:

1) Ganking mechanics / ganking protection options
2) Wardec mechanics

Nullsec

1) Value of ore fields - prevalance and use of rare ores (potential addition of new ores types?)
2) Relative safety of space (impact on changes to local as an intel source for instance)

Lowsec

(mining in lowsec RIP)

So - the way I see it, the real issues about mining in are not focussed on the act of mining itself though it would be nice to see things dusted off a bit. It's got a lot more to do with the mechanics around mining that impact miners.