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Concerns of the CSM
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Vincent VanDamme
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-03-02 20:05:29 UTC
I suppose I should add at the top that I work in the games industry, specifically in the MMO space, but not for CCP. That's where this quick piece comes from.

The CSM is a pretty awesome tool for getting the thoughts of the playerbase.

As players we have a great opportunity with the CSM. We can give feedback via our representatives. And there are a lot of good people who want to get involved. So I'd like to thank them.

I understand that, as representatives, you will want to champion issues good for the players. I think that is awesome.

What I am interested is: Will you be championing the gain of new players?

The reason I ask is that the economics of MMO's means they have a certain amount of Churn. You can mitigate this, you can work and promote the game to keep it, but if the initial play experience (The first four hours) isn't fun for the player, likely they wont stay.

The conversion from Trial to full play is a big leap. For me, the first time I tried EVE the tutorial was terrible, frustrating, and I barely got in. All the goodwill from the GHSC article gone in one utterly frustrating experience.

The tutorial is in an awesome experience, however that first few hours of play is going to need work. That means man hours spent on it. That means man hours not spent on 0.0, or Incursions, or NeX, or T3, or other things.

Will you champion it? Will you be thinking about it?

I am asking because I do see that, in many cases, the CSM process is seen as a part of the metagame. Winning the CSM is like winning a war. Maybe I have misread this, if so, i'm cool with being corrected.

Good luck to all candidates and I hope that those selected do a great job. I hope that, no matter who is successful, the CSM people take the time to think of the big picture.

The more popular EVE is, the more people play, the better the world, the better the game.

Thanks for your time.
---
VVD
Vincent VanDamme
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-03-02 20:15:00 UTC
Reserved for follow up.

Please, feel free to spark up in the discussion. CSM candidates welcomed!

---
VVD
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-03-02 20:17:07 UTC
Goonswarm Federation and Eve-Uni are explicitly newbie-friendly organisations, so if the new player experience is important to you, direct your votes towards The Mittani and Kelduum Revaan.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-03-02 20:17:48 UTC
Reserved for snippy comment.
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-03-02 20:19:27 UTC
Vincent VanDamme wrote:
I suppose I should add at the top that I work in the games industry, specifically in the MMO space, but not for CCP. That's where this quick piece comes from.

The CSM is a pretty awesome tool for getting the thoughts of the playerbase.

As players we have a great opportunity with the CSM. We can give feedback via our representatives. And there are a lot of good people who want to get involved. So I'd like to thank them.

I understand that, as representatives, you will want to champion issues good for the players. I think that is awesome.

What I am interested is: Will you be championing the gain of new players?

The reason I ask is that the economics of MMO's means they have a certain amount of Churn. You can mitigate this, you can work and promote the game to keep it, but if the initial play experience (The first four hours) isn't fun for the player, likely they wont stay.

The conversion from Trial to full play is a big leap. For me, the first time I tried EVE the tutorial was terrible, frustrating, and I barely got in. All the goodwill from the GHSC article gone in one utterly frustrating experience.

The tutorial is in an awesome experience, however that first few hours of play is going to need work. That means man hours spent on it. That means man hours not spent on 0.0, or Incursions, or NeX, or T3, or other things.

Will you champion it? Will you be thinking about it?

I am asking because I do see that, in many cases, the CSM process is seen as a part of the metagame. Winning the CSM is like winning a war. Maybe I have misread this, if so, i'm cool with being corrected.

Good luck to all candidates and I hope that those selected do a great job. I hope that, no matter who is successful, the CSM people take the time to think of the big picture.

The more popular EVE is, the more people play, the better the world, the better the game.

Thanks for your time.
---
VVD



I can't speak for anyone else but I personally wish less people played. If I could just mine by myself in an empty world, I would be the happiest.
Vincent VanDamme
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-03-02 20:27:19 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Goonswarm Federation and Eve-Uni are explicitly newbie-friendly organisations, so if the new player experience is important to you, direct your votes towards The Mittani and Kelduum Revaan.


I have heard a lot of good things about Eve-Uni actually.

As for Goonswarm, I suppose the post from Mittani about who should vote for him may have made me a little cold to that.

Thanks for your comments anyway.

---
VVD
Vincent VanDamme
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-03-02 20:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent VanDamme
Quote:

I can't speak for anyone else but I personally wish less people played. If I could just mine by myself in an empty world, I would be the happiest.


For some reason, I don't think you are being entirely serious.

Perhaps its exposure to an MMO playerbase for five years.

Thanks for your comments anyway.

---
VVD
Franklin D Roosevelt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-03-02 20:31:01 UTC
Vincent VanDamme wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Goonswarm Federation and Eve-Uni are explicitly newbie-friendly organisations, so if the new player experience is important to you, direct your votes towards The Mittani and Kelduum Revaan.


I have heard a lot of good things about Eve-Uni actually.

As for Goonswarm, I suppose the post from Mittani about who should vote for him may have made me a little cold to that.

Thanks for your comments anyway.

---
VVD

Stop signing your posts. It just makes you look dumb...
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#9 - 2012-03-02 21:01:01 UTC
Vincent VanDamme wrote:
I suppose the post from Mittani about who should vote for him may have made me a little cold to that.

Oh so you fall into one of those categories huh.

Well enjoy EVE Online, a mining in space simulator.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vincent VanDamme
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-03-02 21:24:39 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Oh so you fall into one of those categories huh.

Well enjoy EVE Online, a mining in space simulator.


I don't know what you mean by 'those' categories. I like getting stuck into anything, be it mining, PvP, anything. I think the whole experience is fun. If it wasn't i wouldn't be here, would i?

And, i suppose you are making a judgement on playstyles. I think that all playstyles are valid, even if we don't agree or want to take part in them. I can't see myself running a freight business in EvE, but some people have, and the idea of it is awesome. But if i'm wrong on that, then I apologise in advance!

I made the observation that Mittanis statement wasn't on that said it was a candidacy for all EvE players. That isn't to say his viewpoint isn't valid, i absolutely think his position on thisgs is valid, it's just that I found some of the Rhetoric not to my liking, that's all.

I can disagree with people without hating them and all they hold dear! Big smile

The big win, if I take your point, is to get new players into the game and give them a taste of the large scale PvP and other opportunities in those 14 days of trial. Get them truly enjoying all the experiences so that they want to stay.

I stayed in EvE for two reasons, my boss played it at the same time I started, and in recent months I got to know some cool people in game and got into an awesome community.

I know the goonswarm is a group of people who know each other outside of the game, and got into it together (Which is quite awesome) I think knowing people in the game is a good way of getting people in.
I suppose my point it to look out for the people who trip over the free trial offer, the guys who try it out after reading an article on the latest Eve heist, and want to be a part of the action.

I looked at Istvaan Shogaatsu and said "Damn, I would love to do something like that in an MMO".

How do we get people there? To that aspirational level?

The post was just a sort of hope that this issue, of stopping Churn, of increasing the "stickyness" of Eve, should be bourne in mind by the CSM candidates, and successful people.

Thanks for your time and comments.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#11 - 2012-03-02 23:29:11 UTC
So when I was in the CSM previously CCP created a "new" NPE. In order to really understand the degree of success or failure I created a new account, pretended to have never played Eve before and created a new character and played it non-stop for a couple of weeks. I provided all my feedback to CCP when I was done with the experiment.

What I found was that the character creation experience dramatically over-promised and mislead a new player as to what to expect in Eve.

For example I now a Gallente character that I intended to be an artist! Uhm, there is no such career path but if you were listening to what you were being told while you were creating a new character you could easily believe there was such a thing.

We have that now with Incarna characters, think about what someone's expectations would be knowing nothing about Eve, spending hours creating their avatar and then finding out they will be locked in their CQ with no idea of when they can go out that door. Very "bait and switch".

So I agree, we need to provide CCP with the feedback that the new player experience is key to the growth of Eve. And they need to address that by improving the new player experience, not dumbing down the established player experience.

Issler
Vincent VanDamme
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-03-03 00:20:03 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
So when I was in the CSM previously CCP created a "new" NPE. In order to really understand the degree of success or failure I created a new account, pretended to have never played Eve before and created a new character and played it non-stop for a couple of weeks. I provided all my feedback to CCP when I was done with the experiment.

..........

So I agree, we need to provide CCP with the feedback that the new player experience is key to the growth of Eve. And they need to address that by improving the new player experience, not dumbing down the established player experience.

Issler



Thanks for that Issler. It's actually very enlightening.

In all of the MMO space getting people "hooked" in that first 4 hours is a real challenge. I think just having an eye on that, as well as working for current players, can mean changes that aid the game.

Hence posting this, in the hope it might persuade the candidates to think of those new players!

Thanks.
asidburn Enaka
The 501st Legion
#13 - 2012-03-08 08:38:08 UTC
i just want to let everyone know about this scammer claming to be giving plex for votes dont be caught falling for this scam vote aganist darius III member of interstellar eXodus {IE-EX} they are scaming people pass the word on to everyone you can and vote aganist these undeserving jerks here is a copy of the chat log as proof of there unworthy actions!!!!!!!!

asidburn Enaka > what do i need to do
Darius III > http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=480 go there
Darius III > vote for me then paste the message you got after vote cast into this chat
asidburn Enaka > your vote has been registered. We thank you for your participation.
Darius III > Thanks man
Darius III > that concludes our business
Darius III > Fly safe
asidburn Enaka > and what about the contract
asidburn Enaka > i will have my alliance vote aganist you about 250 people
asidburn Enaka > and then where will you be
asidburn Enaka > send me the contract and i will have them vote for you
asidburn Enaka > this is what we call a test of charecture
Darius III > Have them vote against me
Darius III > Sorry for the ssam
Darius III > But I wouldnt sleep at night if I didnt do everything in my power to make syure that Goons dont ruin this CSM
asidburn Enaka > your an idiot all your going to do is send more votes to the goons
Darius III > not really
Darius III > Goons will win chairman nbo matetr what, doesnt matter
Darius III > nothing can stop them
Darius III > and thats a real shame
asidburn Enaka > well you just lost 243 votes
asidburn Enaka > got 1 lost 243
Darius III > Didnt have them anyway
Darius III > didnt lose anything
Darius III > Just please dont make forum post about me, it would ruin my campaign
asidburn Enaka > not to mentone att the isk spam bans you r about to get
asidburn Enaka > too late
asidburn Enaka > and i just copyed this conv
asidburn Enaka > so i can post
Darius III > You wouldnt dare do it
Darius III > You too lazy anyway
Darius III > I dont have a thing to worry about
asidburn Enaka > haha i play eve 8 hrs a day and im retired all i have is time
Darius III > no lazy bones like you would waste their time. LOL so much for your empty threats LOL

rember i dont care who you vote for just dont voter for the