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and if CCP remove Jump Freigthers ?
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Vanilla Twilight
Partido dos Trabalhadores
#1 - 2011-09-21 18:47:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Vanilla Twilight
and if CCP just remove Jump Freigthers, the Industry and Mining in 0.0 would be fixed ? Roll

The main problem with mining and industry in 0.0 on my point of view is that is easier to bring things from high sec to 0.0 then mine or build them in 0.0.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#2 - 2011-09-21 18:48:36 UTC
Just remove mining and industry.
This is the fix.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Jenshae Chiroptera
#3 - 2011-09-21 18:58:51 UTC
Link? This seems to be the middle of a conversation

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Nak hak
#4 - 2011-09-21 19:00:35 UTC
Keep JFs.

Once something is given, never take it back. Ah,.... that don't work on my ex-girlfriends. Roll

It's about freedom.

Best Regards, Nak hak
DarmoknJalad
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-09-21 19:04:16 UTC
Dumb idea is dumb.

If we have Carriers that can carry an entire fleet/task force, as well as clones, in its bay, why can't we have a cyno-using ship that carries lots of regular stuff?
Vanilla Twilight
Partido dos Trabalhadores
#6 - 2011-09-21 19:06:49 UTC
DarmoknJalad wrote:
Dumb idea is dumb.

If we have Carriers that can carry an entire fleet/task force, as well as clones, in its bay, why can't we have a cyno-using ship that carries lots of regular stuff?


because it's ****** up industry and mining in null sec
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
#7 - 2011-09-21 19:08:47 UTC
Vanilla Twilight wrote:
and if CCP just remove Jump Freigthers, the Industry and Mining in 0.0 would be fixed ? Roll


I'm not sure. I'm gonna go with 'probably not, no, but i could use a pair of slippers'
Slaver73
Prometheus Resources
#8 - 2011-09-21 19:10:52 UTC
don't remove JFs but remove/fix the mineral compression crap
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#9 - 2011-09-21 21:41:22 UTC
Watch the prices of JF's tank now :)

Just as I trained JF's they remove them. Typical.
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#10 - 2011-09-21 21:50:11 UTC
I'm pretty sure nobody out there does this, but why wouldn't it be a good idea to mine up a shitstorm out in nullsec so that you actually raise your local supply of minerals (most likely only the high end minerals) to well above what your demand can warrant? In other words, it shouldn't be that hard to produce more than you need, and thus make exporting high end minerals much more profitable than importing them from highsec, where the demand is fierce. It's that same demand that can make your alliance a fortune with all the arkanor out there in null.

Of course, if you know why this doesn't happen, please, do tell. The first thought to come to my mind is something along the lines of, "But the miners wouldn't stand a chance the moment an enemy gang roams through the belt." However, isn't that why every good alliance should have solid PvPers in it? A well protected industrial core, if orchestrated properly, would make industrializing a nullsec home (with a hefty amount of JF support for imports/exports) highly profitable for everyone, in theory.

Which leads me to believe that perhaps the reason is the difficulty in organizing such a thing. I'm not sure. Tell me. Am I missing something crucially important here (aside from the ****** corp/alliance organizational tools provided to us?)

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-09-21 21:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Jump Freighters serve a good purpose and do it very well.

And at ~ 4.5 Bill a pop they are not a cheap option.
However they do allow small alliances to be effective (logistically).

Remove jump freighters and Large alliances will simply shift entirely to Titan Bridges.
At the same this will leave smaller alliances and even corporations out in the cold.

Besides if you want to cut down on the low end shipments from high-sec.
Simple.
Give 0.0 the option to mine Trit and Pyerite effectively in 0.0.
The solution is simply change that oversized rock in the small belt into Scordite.
Now 0.0 people will have an option to purchase low ends from high-sec or mine it in 0.0.

Till that happens nothing will change.
And even with that I wouldn't gurentee it.
However as the prices of Zydrine and megacyte continue to drop.
At some point depending on alot of factors 0.0 alliances will make the shift.
But first CCP needs to change that one rock.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-09-21 22:09:53 UTC
I quote myself from old forums, as this subject is very closely related to the question in hand

Grey Stomshadow wrote:

Meissa Anunthiel wrote:

What would it take for you to mine in 0.0? Why would you like to do it and why wouldn't you? What would be your long term objectives?

Well this is good question.

We do know that people usually tend to use the method what is most convient and easiest to them.

Now lets think about tritanium. Why would you mine tritanium in 0.0 as it is cheap in hisec and relatively easy/safe to haul into nullsec? Actually why would you build anything else than caps in nullsec, because everything is so easy to haul from jita and people build all the other crap in hisec anyways.

I believe that the final solution is to make nullsec->(lowsec)->hisec hauling so risky that;

- People start building stuff in null rather than heading to jita (ccp needs to aid this by providing tools)
- People start mining even tritanium in nullsec because hauling it from hisec is lottery job.
- Price of high end minerals will rocket in hisec, because there is less hauling and stuff gets used in null also. Those who keep hauling get reward for their risk which is great. Price will climb also in 0.0 because supply drops while people are mining low end stuff also.
- Price of low end minerals will rocket in 0.0, because there is less hauling and stuff gets mined locally. This will lower low end mineral prices in hisec also, because demand will drop. Those who keep hauling get reward for their risk which is great.

... to be clear - this means that those freigters gonna start popping.
-> how to arrange this, well those who know better should do the planning. With my knowledge I would prolly add small change of gate malcunction which could throw freighter anywhere in the galaxy and deal with it .)
-> another jump bridge nerf for freighters?

As long high end minerals and low end minerals travel freely between null and high and null manufactures are lacking tools, there wont be real industry/tradecenters in null. Correct?

...so removing jump freighters would be one obvious (but extreme) step to this direction... But as Simetranz said above, you gotta be carefull that large alliances would not gain really unfair advantage here.

Anyways just some speculations - I'm not an expert on this.

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David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-09-21 22:14:42 UTC
Vanilla Twilight wrote:
and if CCP just remove Jump Freigthers, the Industry and Mining in 0.0 would be fixed ? Roll

The main problem with mining and industry in 0.0 on my point of view is that is easier to bring things from high sec to 0.0 then mine or build them in 0.0.


your are so wrong. JF's are necessary at the moment


industry sucks in 0.0 cos

1. outpost upgrade cost - tier 2/3 outposts upgrades are way too expensive

2. most ore belts in 0.0 suck

3. ice belts need to contain all 4 types of isotopes (make them hidden belts if necessary that requires the industry upgrade at 3 before they spawn)

4. distribute moon goo more evenly & allow for a new outpost upgrade that is dedicated for doing reactions, as this is why t2 production is mostly done in high sec hence the need for jf's to get said t2 stuff out to 0.0

5. gas clouds in nullsec are too rare.

6. poses are too weak these days.... running research jobs in null is far too risky when it comes to precious bpos.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Hicksimus
Torgue
#14 - 2011-09-21 22:24:50 UTC
Removal of Jump Freighters is a step in the right direction for making EvE a game instead of an alt-account showdown.

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#15 - 2011-09-21 22:27:15 UTC





How much free SP are we getting for this?
The Apostle
Doomheim
#16 - 2011-09-21 22:28:12 UTC
Quote:
I'm pretty sure nobody out there does this, but why wouldn't it be a good idea to mine up a shitstorm out in nullsec so that you actually raise your local supply of minerals (most likely only the high end minerals) to well above what your demand can warrant? In other words, it shouldn't be that hard to produce more than you need, and thus make exporting high end minerals much more profitable than importing them from highsec, where the demand is fierce. It's that same demand that can make your alliance a fortune with all the arkanor out there in null.

Of course, if you know why this doesn't happen, please, do tell. The first thought to come to my mind is something along the lines of, "But the miners wouldn't stand a chance the moment an enemy gang roams through the belt." However, isn't that why every good alliance should have solid PvPers in it? A well protected industrial core, if orchestrated properly, would make industrializing a nullsec home (with a hefty amount of JF support for imports/exports) highly profitable for everyone, in theory.

Which leads me to believe that perhaps the reason is the difficulty in organizing such a thing. I'm not sure. Tell me. Am I missing something crucially important here (aside from the ****** corp/alliance organizational tools provided to us?)


It's a combination of these.

1) Mining null is usually done by carebears. They simply don't understand "align to" and "safespot". First sign of trouble, they warp straight to station and get bubbled.

2) Defensive fleet pilots are usually ADHD and they won't stick around waiting for an enemy.

3) A single cloaky frig can hotdrop a mining team and no amount of defensive fleet can catch a cloaky until he uncloaks (fix this CCP)

4) Combination of spies and AFK cloakies kill all planned mining ops (fix this CCP).

5) Bubbling gates on mining ops is pointless because raiders log in system.

6) The big alliances have massive taxing on ore refining. Too hard to jump the raw out for processing unless you have a Rorqual.

7) Too many of the low-end materials available in high-sec. Too much of the high-ends come out of WH's/drone regions.

That's a few to digest. For carebears, it's easier to rat for iskies. Why mine?

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2011-09-21 22:43:34 UTC
Removing jump freighters is not going to get people to mine in nullsec. If you think it will then you are dumb.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#18 - 2011-09-21 23:11:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Russell Casey
If CCP remove Jump freighters, people will use Carriers full of industrials full of cans full of stuff. When one gets popped, it'll look like a giant Russian doll exploding into smaller Russian dolls. Shocked Okay, that makes me want to support this idea now.

You'd have to take cynos and jump bridges out to force people to have to mine and build in 0.0 like in wh space, and sov wars would be even more about controlling the choke points. As for people losing stuff to raiders---aren't ships exploding the reason we build and sell them on the market and isn't EVE supposed to involve balancing risk versus reward but loss versus gain?

Clearly, people aren't dying enough in null.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2011-09-21 23:13:30 UTC
Russell Casey wrote:
If CCP remove Jump freighters, people will use Carriers full of industrials full of cans full of stuff.
…good luck.
Cire XIII
Filthy Peasants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#20 - 2011-09-21 23:27:12 UTC
Then titans just bridge conventional freighters, orcas, or haulers. I suppose you need to remove titan bridges and maybe jump bridges too.
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