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Crime & Punishment

 
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WhichWayDidHeGO?
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Taylor Schaffle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-03-02 04:32:00 UTC
Sooo, just recently had a corp theft for the first time. (I know this is a part of EVE and I've seen it happen to plenty other corps) But this time is the first time I've been a director of a corp when it happened. Luckily it wasn't anything too big...

This being said... IS THERE REALLY NO LOG OR ANY WAY TO FIND WHO TOOK OUR STUFF FROM OUR HANGAR??? I MEAN COME ON CCP!!!!

If you can steal in this game, there should AT LEAST be a way for us to clearly see who did it in a log. It's ridiculous that you would have to put everything into cans to see an actual log of who went in. HOW HARD IS IT TO PUT A LOG ON THE HANGAR ITSELF??? I'll accept that somebody stole our stuff and that we need to fix our security, but seriously? No log to at least see what's going in and out??? I'm just at a loss for words on this one... If somebody can possibly tremendously hurt you by stealing, then why can't we even get a chance to tremendously make them regret they did it...? It's almost like creating the game specifically for that... and there being no repercussions. How are people supposed to have semi-trustworthy and convenient safe areas in which corp members don't get ripped off at any given time by other equal member corps...? Nobody/no corp in this game can even figure out who the person was that did it, so that they can end future thefts.

It's so simple but evidently too much of puzzle for you guys to have realized this... Is there any plan in the future to put a log into item/ship hangars for POS's?
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-03-02 04:46:11 UTC
How hard is it to put in an audit container?

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#3 - 2012-03-02 11:10:34 UTC
How hard..... mmmm...... nevermind.... Oops

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#4 - 2012-03-02 11:30:50 UTC
But reading the corps mail with in-fighting, suspicions and paranoia while seemingly getting away scott free is the best bit.

Check members hangers.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Garven Dreis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-03-02 11:32:23 UTC
Or regulating what hangers members can access.

Terrible Poster Runner-up 2014
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#6 - 2012-03-02 11:55:34 UTC
I bet you did it.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#7 - 2012-03-02 12:01:06 UTC
Taylor Schaffle wrote:
Sooo, just recently had a corp theft for the first time. (I know this is a part of EVE and I've seen it happen to plenty other corps) But this time is the first time I've been a director of a corp when it happened. Luckily it wasn't anything too big...

This being said... IS THERE REALLY NO LOG OR ANY WAY TO FIND WHO TOOK OUR STUFF FROM OUR HANGAR??? I MEAN COME ON CCP!!!!

..snip...



The important thing in these cases isn't "who" but "how".

In other words a witch hunt isn't going to solve the problem and it's not going to do corp morale any good. I can imagine that you're angry but as corp lead the best thing you can do now is just announce the bad news in a "matter of fact" way (if that is even necessary) and learn from it. Be angry behind closed doors but don't get other people upset about it.

What I'm reading in your post that would alarm me if I were responsible for corp security is that apparently you have set up something whereby all members have access to either other members' stuff or to corp assets that are not intended to be "free to take".

Maybe if you post something about how you have security set up we can help you improve it.

T-
Taylor Schaffle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-03-02 15:54:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Taylor Schaffle
I'm aware of how to improve security. That isn't the issue. and until Tinu Moorhsum posted, every post above his was either crap or something I already stated in my first post of not being an issue.

Cans have a size limit to them, therefor limiting organizing space at times. They're not hard to put in the hangars, but can cause a headache sometimes when it comes to organizing. And I know they're cheap, but why the hell should I have to spend ISK to buy a bunch of containers just because they have logs? That should be free.... I'm more pissed about there being a ******* combat log which, lets be honest, is only used to see how much damage you just did to some poor guy, but no audit log for a hangar in a POS.

We wanted/tried to allow all members have access to items in our low/med/high tabs of the hangar. No problem if somebody needs some mod or ammo... It allows for members to have hangar access to our POS and not feel stranded in our system with nothing to defend themselves. They have always been restricted access to the tabs with more expensive, shiny, t2 mods. Somebody almost cleared out our low/med tabs in our hanger(s) except for a few things. Like i said, the theft wasn't "big" but a theft none-the-less.

As far as steps taken to find the culprit, the other Directors and I have been keeping it real low key. I have narrowed it down to a handful of guys who have the rights and have been in our system before/recently. I have sent a mail to them, asking for there full api key and shortly after they give it to us, they can simply reset their keys. They have no reason to be afraid of this or not trust us, we've never wronged any of our members and if they have a problem with it, they can leave...

As far as new security steps, I will be putting in audit cans because there's no other way to audit our stuff. Then I will clearly be restricting access for non-director members to only be able to give and not take from the hangars. I really don't want to do this because it's very inconvenient for us all when either a director is around and our members can get a needed mod or ammo or if we are on... we have to constantly stay in the system or go back to the system to pull things out for them.

Please no more useless ignorant posts like this:
Quote:
Tora Bushido: How hard..... mmmm...... nevermind....
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#9 - 2012-03-02 16:24:27 UTC
I'd just steal the cans.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Sir Lomax
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
#10 - 2012-03-02 16:31:58 UTC
I get the idea of the whole "public bear cave" were all the little bears can share 'equally' among each other. I get that... it’s a little socialistic in a pure capitalistic environment but to each their own.

1. Issue about your idea and I think this really more of a data logistics problem. So let’s say CCP adds a log to a station box. Each little tiny letter value has a data size value that in a game with thousands of stations and thousands of players would vary quite a bit and be quite large. Where is the data stored. Locally on your computer drive like chat logs? If that’s the case wouldn’t that data log change each time you open a box that was touched by another account? This would then affect the speed of the game because of just THAT much more data being transferred from the Eve client/server to your computer. It’s not like the chat log because the chat log is really only your client to your computer. The processing happens on a “local” level vs. server to computer… each and every time the “shared bear box” was used. This would require quite a bit of code writing and data flow management for something the game isn’t even about…. Which is capitalism. Its “out of scope” as they like to say.

2. It’s a public box. It wasn’t ever meant to be managed, watched over, monitored, inspected for use. Think of it like a trashcan you created that is outside and even bums have access too. Your trash is valuable in quantity apparently, you just discovered this I’m guessing because of your tears on it being gone. Its MENT to be accessed by everyone.

---- I’m going to tell you a story because I have nothing pending with work at the moment… WAAYYYY back in 1993… when I was in high school. My friend and I would sit at our little Pentium 166’s and search IP blocks for “open shared drives”. Microsoft used to have this fun way of sharing data by giving it the capability of clicking a setting sharing rights to documents and drives with the something called “EVERYONE”. This feature was represented by a little tiny world picture. And what the unknowing or uninformed person didn’t realize and probably should have known is, that really meant EVERYONE! All that was needed to find this shared document/file/DRIVE was simply the right program and the IP #. This was long before shared IP #s so each computer on the web had its very own IP address. All you needed to do was type in a IP block … say 109.201.22.1… or in the case of the program you could just go 109.201.xxx.xxx Which browsed ALLL the ips in that block for shared to EVERYONE documents/files/drives. As dumb as you think that may be… people did it. People shared everything, a lot. We changed resumes, boot folders, any file that computer wasn’t currently using we had full edit rights on… and we did. Changed family pictures around… deleted stuff… anything a 16 year old could think to do, we did.

Moral of the story… You sir, let EVERYONE access your stuff… All the thief did was, added some beers and a desire for attention that dad never gave them. The only one real person to blame in this story is yourself, don’t blame CCP for giving you enough rope to hang yourself.
Taylor Schaffle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-03-02 17:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Taylor Schaffle
First of all, I must applaud your ignorance. Even though most of what you said was true, it was also truly ignorant.

1) Lol, out of all the people who use logs and know what they do and how they work, I would be one of the top guys to know about it. It's my real life job... All you would have to do to fix a space problem for the logs is to have them overwrite with say a time limit or size limit... These logs can be saved on your system or their servers. It would be smarter to have the game save it on your system though. You think these logs would be so big that they would cause the client on your system to be slow? That is ridiculous. Windows and Unix/Linux logs spit out 50 times or even thousands of times more data than a log would be for a simple hangar or two and I don't see them crashing or slowing any systems on a normal basis. These logs would be child's play on your own system, so don't give me that "data logistics" ****. I'm well aware of the power it takes to process this stuff, and you have blown it WAY out of proportion.

2) Ok so if you're in a Wormhole, and you need other corp/alliance members to live there to defend it... How are you supposed to equip those pilots when they're running low on ammo/drones? How are they supposed to live somewhere that doesn't have supplies? You can't. It's impossible. People need this stuff, meaning they NEED access to it. My "public bear cave" is not so the we can "share equally" amongst others. It's because it's a necessity and without it, a huge management headache.

You're making another ignorant mistake thinking I have tears because some stuff is gone... Psh, that stuff was a drop in the bucket, in fact, i didn't pay for most of it. I don't care as much it being gone/stolen but I do care that it doesn't happen again and possibly on a larger scale.

What have I done to insult you? You're parents beat you when you were younger or something? Or you just having a ****** day at work...? That little story you told me is **** I used to do too. Back when security was nothing, and there were no granular permissions or logs, it only took a 5 year old to realize he could hack everything with no repercussions. So don't act like you're some computer genius. Face it, you're not... And half the people on these forums probably know a hell of a lot more than you do...

The problem is for somebody to take something from a hangar, there is only one permission, and that is "take". Nothing else, no granular permissions for anything on it. It's like having a server and you can only set permissions at the drive level. Which for anybody trying to play around on your system, is like childsplay. So, not including tabs, which I'm not gonna make for every member, there is basically only a yes or no on most of the stuff stored. For those people who need that access all i can do is say yes. And if I can't really stop them from taking whatever they want, I should be able to at least see who is taking or putting in whatever is going through our hangar.

If there's a log for combat, there could be a log for a hangar too. So even though somebody may steal, at least I can stop them from ever doing it again. It's simple common sense.

Sir Lomax, grow the hell up.
StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
#12 - 2012-03-02 17:32:21 UTC
More time needs to be spent on your roles and getting to now your members. Give trusted people the ability to dish out stuff people need. You can give each tab a role even. There are allot of things at your disposal that can prevent corp theft. Most of them involve being active and knowing your people.

Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.
Taylor Schaffle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-03-02 17:34:39 UTC
Yeah, I mean I guess the only thing really to do is make more tabs for different roles, it just clutters stuff though What? Seems to be the easiest way of fixing the issue so far. But I would really like to see a log in the future. I'm pretty sure the majority of any corp/alliance director would love to see this as well.
Sir Lomax
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
#14 - 2012-03-02 18:01:58 UTC
dang... u mad bro?
Taylor Schaffle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-03-02 18:25:38 UTC
Nope, just trying to clear things up for you. Cuz it seemed like the only reason you left that flaming pile of post was because you were mad at something and you didn't actually want to help or even give an educated opinion about my OP. And there was no reason for you to do that.
Sir Lomax
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
#16 - 2012-03-02 18:29:38 UTC
Taylor Schaffle wrote:
Nope, just trying to clear things up for you. Cuz it seemed like the only reason you left that flaming pile of post was because you were mad at something and you didn't actually want to help or even give an educated opinion about my OP. And there was no reason for you to do that.



Dont b mad bro. Hugs?
Slider VII
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-03-02 18:33:37 UTC
You know, there is a simple solution...

1 - Remove access to the corporate hanger access except for the CEO and directors.
2 - Set your hanger views to read-only.
3 - If someone wants something from the hanger then they ask for it and the CEO and/or a director gets the item out of the hanger for the corp member.

This eliminates the headaches and the tears.


If you think that this a flame post, sorry that you are mis-guided. Just posting some common sense.

Slider VII Recruitment Director - Grey Templars Recruitment Officer - Fidelas Constans [FCON]
Sir Lomax
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
#18 - 2012-03-02 18:38:53 UTC
Slider VII wrote:
You know, there is a simple solution...

1 - Remove access to the corporate hanger access except for the CEO and directors.
2 - Set your hanger views to read-only.
3 - If someone wants something from the hanger then they ask for it and the CEO and/or a director gets the item out of the hanger for the corp member.

This eliminates the headaches and the tears.


If you think that this a flame post, sorry that you are mis-guided. Just posting some common sense.




Increase security based on common sense? YOU SIR need to GROW UP! And quit flaming people!
Amber Thetawaves
Mong's Marauders
#19 - 2012-03-02 19:39:29 UTC
Taylor Schaffle wrote:
I'm more pissed about there being a ******* combat log which, lets be honest, is only used to see how much damage you just did to some poor guy, but no audit log for a hangar in a POS.


LOL there's so much more to it

why you mad bro?
Tidurious
Blatant Alt Corp
#20 - 2012-03-02 23:00:17 UTC
How hard... mmm....


No really, it was me. So sorry, but thanks for all your stuff.
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