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CCP - Reality Check

First post
Author
Dark Deviant
Stain Train
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#21 - 2011-09-21 21:50:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Dark Deviant
I enjoyed the blog. I also appreciate you advocating for the player-base and vision that will help advance the game.

I did start to think outside of the box regarding underlining reasons for this vision-drift. I have to admit that part of my thinking started during a cable news story about the US Bail-out of the Banking Industry. So here are my thoughts:


  • CCP and White Wolf merged in 2006 and started to develop WoD. I assume WoD as an MMO was part of that agreement. Kudo's for picking an IP that would take off in 2008 with the Twilight movie series starting!
  • Developing a new MMO takes time and I'm sure a couple year's of planning were started to move WoD forward.
  • Iceland had their economic melt-down in at the end of 2008.
  • Anybody trying to get a loan to consolidate debt, refinance their home, or get a business loans would know how difficult that process became after the global financial melt down.
  • I imagine that CCP's plan hit a road-block (Large Warp Disruption Field) on their way to diversifying their services (WoD, etc). Where would the financing come from? How would CCP maintain its obligations to White Wolf?
  • Why ... they have an internal money tree! 300K subscriptions x $15.00 USD per month is approximately 54 Million dollars in revenue per year. Question is, how much is left after salaries, ISP, overhead, marketing, etc? What if we reallocate some of our talent and revenue to help us follow through on our business obligations?!?

I guess I'm trying to say that I think CCP is doing their best to continue with business obligations and agreements surrounding a merger, while developing spin-off titles like Dust 514 that will indirectly provide free advertising for EVE. I can't blame CCP for reallocating resources to meet their obligations. I do hope that a 'soon' launch of Dust 514 will provide more financial reserves to develop EVE again. As those projects come to closure, CCP may be able to reallocate some of the talent to help develop EVE again.

Thinking about this also helps me understand the micro-transaction idea. More quick revenue in a loan-free world.

Just some thoughts on how real world economics may impact long-term goals. Just a guess that CCP may have reallocated internal resources to help them potentially meet those goals.
Venkul Mul
Vikramaditya
#22 - 2011-09-21 22:04:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Venkul Mul
Malcanis wrote:

CCP can't delete off-site blogs.



"Evil CCP will remove it" is the worst excuse I have seen.
The CSM can post a extended blog on whatever forum they like, but at least a condensed version should be in the EVE forum.
CCP would have reasons ot remove them only if the CSM member was violating the NDA, but then violating the NDA even on a outside blog is a good reason for removal from the CSM and banning.
If the CSM feel they are censured on the forum they should come out and say it and/or leave their position as there no reason to support "evil CCP" staying in the CSM.
So your is simply a strawman argument.

Apology to Selene and the CSM as the above comment is aimed at Malcanis, not at the CSM.


A little question to you Selene:
Any idea on the impact of the increased demand on the user computes after the summer aptches?
I feel that part of the reduction in the logger numbers is that people can't log multiple accounts as easily as before the patch, so there is a big number of alts that aren't logging.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2011-09-21 22:47:24 UTC
Venkul Mul wrote:
Apology to Selene and the CSM as the above comment is aimed at Malcanis, not at the CSM.

Why are you spending time responding to Malcanis? He's a bigger troll than I am.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Frozen Eddie Johnson
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#24 - 2011-09-21 22:53:30 UTC
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
stuff


You seem to have some of CCP's special gravy dripping from your chin, there. I'd wipe it off for you, but judging by the rest of your posts on this forum, it gets reapplied too frequently to matter.
Archy Mayaki
Doomheim
#25 - 2011-09-21 23:12:13 UTC
Frozen Eddie Johnson wrote:
Likes received: 0


Also, to the OP: I appreciate your good-willing. I have nothing more to say.
Frozen Eddie Johnson
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#26 - 2011-09-21 23:14:40 UTC
Archy Mayaki wrote:
Frozen Eddie Johnson wrote:
Likes received: 0


Also, to the OP: I appreciate your good-willing. I have nothing more to say.


Oh noes, you have 2 more likes than me on spacebook, when this is probably my first post on the new forums. Whatever will I do.
Archy Mayaki
Doomheim
#27 - 2011-09-21 23:18:58 UTC
Frozen Eddie Johnson wrote:
Archy Mayaki wrote:
Frozen Eddie Johnson wrote:
Likes received: 0


Also, to the OP: I appreciate your good-willing. I have nothing more to say.


Oh noes, you have 2 more likes than me on spacebook, when this is probably my first post on the new forums. Whatever will I do.


U Jelly?
Frozen Eddie Johnson
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#28 - 2011-09-21 23:21:03 UTC
Archy Mayaki wrote:
Frozen Eddie Johnson wrote:
Archy Mayaki wrote:
Frozen Eddie Johnson wrote:
Likes received: 0


Also, to the OP: I appreciate your good-willing. I have nothing more to say.


Oh noes, you have 2 more likes than me on spacebook, when this is probably my first post on the new forums. Whatever will I do.


U Jelly?


I would be, but no, because you're bald.
xxxak
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2011-09-21 23:28:23 UTC
Damn that was well done.

[u]The nerfs to supercaps will cause more super pilots to join the largest alliances who can properly "support" their deployment, further concentrating firepower/wealth in EVE. The end result will be fewer "fun" fights, and will hurt EVE in the long run.[/u]

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#30 - 2011-09-22 04:36:08 UTC
You go girl.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
#31 - 2011-09-22 04:53:23 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
I have a feeling that the "revolution" passed already and atm people are on cautiously positive mood waiting for CCP's next (and future) moves hoping that failtrain has really returned to track again.

Time will tell... actions will shape the future.

Anyways well written blog - CSM members who keep themselves on the map and represent us with their best knowledge have earned their position and can be proud of that. Keep up the good work.


Exactly that, thank you and well said (or typed)


Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#32 - 2011-09-22 05:42:21 UTC
Venkul Mul wrote:
[quote=Malcanis]
A little question to you Selene:
Any idea on the impact of the increased demand on the user computes after the summer patches?
I feel that part of the reduction in the logger numbers is that people can't log multiple accounts as easily as before the patch, so there is a big number of alts that aren't logging.


So long as you're actually in space, I've not seen anything that's worse than before and I run multiple accounts often. In the CQ, of course, is an entirely different issue. I finally turned on THE WALL because just a pair of clients with the CQ loaded was making my gaming rig sound like a banshee. This is a point that the CSM has raised multiple times and actually started a new thread on the internal CSM forums yesterday about. As to if this is impacting people logging in, I'm sure it's part of the larger group of issues that have many stepping back until X-issue is resolved.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#33 - 2011-09-22 05:58:32 UTC
Dark Deviant wrote:
I guess I'm trying to say that I think CCP is doing their best to continue with business obligations and agreements surrounding a merger


Of course. This only makes sense but, as you pointed out in your post, CCP / Iceland hasn't had the best ride in the past few years. Part of that is self-inflicted though, as we've seen CCP stumble on multiple occasions with their messaging. The fact that their focus seems to shift every other expansion and never finishing major features doesn't help either. None of this adds up to an environment for going bigger, better, faster at max speed.

Dark Deviant wrote:
I can't blame CCP for reallocating resources to meet their obligations. I do hope that a 'soon' launch of Dust 514 will provide more financial reserves to develop EVE again. As those projects come to closure, CCP may be able to reallocate some of the talent to help develop EVE again.


EVE would, quite bluntly, be dead by then. DUST is slated to come out ~sometime next year~. Between now and then, CCP needs to define just what the magical link between EVE and DUST is, then implement a mechanic within EVE to support that. Nothing I've seen so far indicated that DUST will be anything more than another FPS with an online gimmick attached and don't get me started on the PS3 only release (lol). Regardless, EVE's numbers are flat-lining right now and without an immediate effort to change that, everything else CCP has in the pipe is threatened.

Dark Deviant wrote:
Thinking about this also helps me understand the micro-transaction idea. More quick revenue in a loan-free world.


The NeX was a good idea but, as I've noted multiple times, the pricing structure and marketing(??) do not lend themselves at all to making a lot of money. I'm sure CCP had made something out of the NeX, but I've not purchased one item on any character because 1.) The prices are literally ******** and 2.) The selection is lacking in the extreme. CCP needs to look at how Valve runs Steam to get some ideas on how to actually do this sort of thing.

For an interesting read, check out BitGamers Micro-transaction Investigation.

One snippet:

"EVE Online
Brought in with EVE's recent Incara update, these are all cosmetic items for the new in-game avatars and, bloody hell, they are expensive. They are technically available for free for a substantial amount of in-game currency - 'substantial' as in that some are the same price as huge space ships."


There's also this nice graph that shows how EVE's prices compare to other games.

Dark Deviant wrote:
Just some thoughts on how real world economics may impact long-term goals. Just a guess that CCP may have reallocated internal resources to help them potentially meet those goals.


I guess we shall see. Smile

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#34 - 2011-09-22 06:08:58 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
seeing as i voted for you, im gonan say this.

why did you not start turning up the heat on ccp when the players started to mass quit?


We did quite a lot of complaining actually, but I had my own personal reasons as to why I've been scarce the last couple months. Even so, up until Jester's Blog on the subject gave us some hard evidence (that ofc CCP wasn't giving us), our lack of ammunition kept us from going full throttle. Once we had some real numbers to point to, the heat was on so to speak.

Smoking Blunts wrote:
im not just talking about getting the ship spinning hanger back, im talking about all the wasted time and effort they put in to a 1/4 finished product and push that out as a 'expansion' .


M8, I've probably been bitching about Incarna and it's lack of direction / features / polish for longer than most current subscribers have been playing EVE. Ugh

Smoking Blunts wrote:
maybe you were doing this behind closed doors, but it would have been reassuring (not in a mummy daddy reassuring way, more in i didnt waste my time voting way)to know that you were doing it back then at the start


The summer is over and everyone is back at work in Iceland now so that's why you're seeing more activity than before. I can't control what other CSM members do in terms of ~posting~ and such, but I am going to make an effort to try to get more information out more often.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Gregor Palter
#35 - 2011-09-22 06:17:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Palter
I don't mind CCP using resources on other projects, partially paid for by EVE. I don't mind CCP having a "meh, lets do something different for a while instead" because you can't keep your focus on one product for 8 years and not get worn down. I don't even mind CCP's eternal little fuckups.

What I DO mind is CCP taking us for idiots by REMOVING valuable resources from EVE development (rather than excess resources) for a long time, using all that to create something I didn't pay them for and then introduce something that's quite obviously a money grab while having the gal to tell make belief stories about it.

Things aren't "awesome", and if one messes up he doesn't have to publicly humiliate himself over it but at least he should go "ok, we ****** up lets rethink this", without the PR minutes nonsense. CCP doesn't need marketing or PR idiocy nor does it have to be politically correct, that's all just managers (read; waste of oxygen) folks. EVE is a niche sandbox that evolves about people bashing eachother's heads in, in space. Everything should focus and evolve around that basic premise (doesn't mean I can't have other stuff ofcourse).

The whole "you must grow because if you don't grow you're failing" is nothing but nonsense, told by clueless people who followed some economy study and think they know it all. Being stable is FINE, even being small is fine.

Excuses are the refuge of the weak.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#36 - 2011-09-22 06:19:19 UTC
Venkul Mul wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

CCP can't delete off-site blogs.



"Evil CCP will remove it" is the worst excuse I have seen.


If you like, but you can't say that CCP have no history of deleting things they don't like.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Zey Nadar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2011-09-22 06:19:37 UTC
Seleene wrote:


EVE would, quite bluntly, be dead by then. DUST is slated to come out ~sometime next year~. Between now and then, CCP needs to define just what the magical link between EVE and DUST is, then implement a mechanic within EVE to support that.


Let me guess: They let PS3 people chat on our global channels and thats pretty much it Smile

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#38 - 2011-09-22 06:23:43 UTC
I do not believe we will see anything but hax and small fixes for FiS for a long time; DUST have been set for delivery in 2012 and is going to pull a lot a company resources. It is simply how things work, and you know it if you ever worked in the business.

Besides, CCP can excuse themselves because DUST is 'EVE like'.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Barbie D0ll
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2011-09-22 07:08:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbie D0ll
I have 5 days left on AWU 5, and I have been in and have had good and bad experiences in nullsec PVE and PVE, wh PVP and PVE, im also starting to get into manufacturing and Research.
and I am starting to get bored with this game.

I would have loved to see the different station interiors before they replaced them with the 4 generic ones. heck, I now fly amarr and caldari T3s, I could fly a golem AND a paladin in under a month. I used to do exploration in a cloaky interdictor-nullified T3 making shitloads of isk in hostile null sec, and would almost **** my pants when i jump into a bubbled gatecamp afraid the lag might kill me.
and then they removed the ship interface and replaced it with a non-functional door with the message "you don't like CQ? well theres the door, now GTFO"

I love the efforts of the majority of CCP's employees, its just I am getting more and more irratated at CCPs lack of attention to EVE and space. granted we occasionally have these new fixes and overhauls, but you only have like 10 people actually working on Eve, and the rest being told to make something that in my opinion will hit a brick wall in an already oversaturated market. we have M.A.G., Everquest, Ultima Online, WoW, and various other MMORPGs which I remind you, more are being crapped out of the ****** game mill every day.

this is EvE Online, the one and ONLY game that exists in a single shard where ANYTHING you do can or WILL have an effect on the rest of the universe. I have no ******* idea why CCP's managers are trying to expand into other areas and putting the strangulation on the only thing they have going.

Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#40 - 2011-09-22 11:25:38 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
seeing as i voted for you, im gonan say this.

why did you not start turning up the heat on ccp when the players started to mass quit?


We did quite a lot of complaining actually, but I had my own personal reasons as to why I've been scarce the last couple months. Even so, up until Jester's Blog on the subject gave us some hard evidence (that ofc CCP wasn't giving us), our lack of ammunition kept us from going full throttle. Once we had some real numbers to point to, the heat was on so to speak.

Smoking Blunts wrote:
im not just talking about getting the ship spinning hanger back, im talking about all the wasted time and effort they put in to a 1/4 finished product and push that out as a 'expansion' .


M8, I've probably been bitching about Incarna and it's lack of direction / features / polish for longer than most current subscribers have been playing EVE. Ugh

Smoking Blunts wrote:
maybe you were doing this behind closed doors, but it would have been reassuring (not in a mummy daddy reassuring way, more in i didnt waste my time voting way)to know that you were doing it back then at the start


The summer is over and everyone is back at work in Iceland now so that's why you're seeing more activity than before. I can't control what other CSM members do in terms of ~posting~ and such, but I am going to make an effort to try to get more information out more often.



thansk for the honest answers, tbh nice to see a csm post without NDA in it...lol
looking forward to this dev blog regarding the upcoming expansion, for me and many people i know(all aroudn the 6/7 years in eve mark) its make or break time. as even with the best will in the world putting faith into a company that pushes shite out constantly and dares call it an expansion isnt happening anymore.

OMG when can i get a pic here