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CCP : MACRO BANNINGS

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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#201 - 2012-03-01 23:56:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Evei Shard wrote:
Glad to see that CCP is, apparently, being indiscriminate in their banning of bots, regardless of what region, alliance, etc.

I find it curious that the Goons are supposedly upset about all this. How many times have they commented on the forums that they don't mine?

Sounds more like orchestrated theatrics going on.

CCP Sreegs: Maybe I missed it in your dev post, but were the bots hit by this ban inclusive of ratting bots, or just miners?



Goons are enjoying the tears as much as everyone elseBlink


Well...

The one's that haven't been banned are.

Mr Epeen Cool
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#202 - 2012-03-02 00:12:18 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:


I find it curious that the Goons are supposedly upset about all this. How many times have they commented on the forums that they don't mine?



One merely has to look at all those high industry index systems in goon space to see how little they mine. This is the classic case of the guy who was responsible for that smelly fart saying "who farted?" and giving everyone an accusing stare.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#203 - 2012-03-02 00:17:38 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Evei Shard wrote:


I find it curious that the Goons are supposedly upset about all this. How many times have they commented on the forums that they don't mine?



One merely has to look at all those high industry index systems in goon space to see how little they mine. This is the classic case of the guy who was responsible for that smelly fart saying "who farted?" and giving everyone an accusing stare.


Over the past year I have seen one hulk in dek and it died.
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#204 - 2012-03-02 00:32:59 UTC
Do you think they can get the market bots too?
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#205 - 2012-03-02 00:35:11 UTC
There's a thread about that in MD...answer: yes.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#206 - 2012-03-02 05:54:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
baltec1 wrote:


Over the past year I have seen one hulk in dek and it died.


Then you should pettition the decay rate for the industry levels over there then, cos they sure aren't decaying all that fast in systems like 5S-KXA and a whole bunch of other Industry 4, 3 and 2 systems that I won't bother mentioning. You need what, 12 million m3/24h to prevent an indy 5 from decaying, and 6 million m3 for an indy 4? Twice that amount for ice.

Yah, no miners in goon space. Your fart stinks.
Jita Alt666
#207 - 2012-03-02 06:24:30 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Over the past year I have seen one hulk in dek and it died.


Then you should pettition the decay rate for the industry levels over there then, cos they sure aren't decaying all that fast in systems like 5S-KXA and a whole bunch of other Industry 4, 3 and 2 systems that I won't bother mentioning. You need what, 12 million m3/24h to prevent an indy 5 from decaying, and 6 million m3 for an indy 4? Twice that amount for ice.

Yah, no miners in goon space. Your fart stinks.


I think you may be both right. Don't goons mine in rifters?
Solinuas
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#208 - 2012-03-02 06:56:30 UTC
No, they fly to moons in specially modified titans, right click, and then scoop the moon to cargohold
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#209 - 2012-03-02 07:40:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Do PI and moon mining count for industry? We do a lot of those.
Solinuas wrote:
No, they fly to moons in specially modified titans, right click, and then scoop the moon to cargohold

Oh so that's where the titans are. They mine out moons like so many deathstars.

...hm.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#210 - 2012-03-02 09:13:35 UTC
More reason to make supercaps industrial ships!!!111

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#211 - 2012-03-02 13:44:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Marzetti
Ptraci wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Over the past year I have seen one hulk in dek and it died.


Then you should pettition the decay rate for the industry levels over there then, cos they sure aren't decaying all that fast in systems like 5S-KXA and a whole bunch of other Industry 4, 3 and 2 systems that I won't bother mentioning. You need what, 12 million m3/24h to prevent an indy 5 from decaying, and 6 million m3 for an indy 4? Twice that amount for ice.

Yah, no miners in goon space. Your fart stinks.


Sweet, I'm gonna fly over there and find out who I can ridicule mercilessly. Also now maybe I'll have a use for that Tormentor BPO I bought accidentally (don't shop drunk, kids).

EDIT: Oh, you didn't say it was a WIDOT system. :cripes: Nobody cares what WIDOT does. Thanks for wasting my time.
Tarikan
Preload Thorium
Insidious.
#212 - 2012-03-02 15:04:11 UTC
Happy days! bots are gone!

the tears and cry outs of how they plan to bring CCP down through legal actions is hilarious. Ekids Etears are everywhere.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#213 - 2012-03-02 15:48:23 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
[quote=baltec1]

Over the past year I have seen one hulk in dek and it died.


.


I'm late joining this thread but I would like to add teh following:

1) If I click on systems in DotLan (especially deep in null-sec where they don't get reported by players) that have about 3000 kills per day and are not on the main routes through a given region then I'm still seeing a lot of "square wave" pattern to ratting (only pauses at DT) although few or no jumps in or out of the system are made in a 24 hour period. So yeah, maybe some bots have been eliminated but I personally still don't see the light at the end of the tunnel yet. Maybe the work has begun--maybe it's even a good start--but it's only a start. I've been playing long enough to know that I should only applaud "anti botting" initiatives once I see *real* proof of a lasting effect.... and I don't see it yet.

2) banning bots once in a while like cleaning your house once a year. It feels good the day you did it but the rest of the year it's still a mess. What is needed is software to identify "suspected" bots and flag them for review so someone at CCP can follow up on it. It needs to be an ongoing process and the only thing that's going to help in the long term is *continuous* and "concerted* effort on the part of CCP to be proactive and stay ahead of the curve. The reactive method of responding to reported bots (not sure if this is changing) is naive and utterly ineffective. You simply can't keep your house clean by sweeping the floor once a year and even more so when you lay back and wait for other people to point out that it's dirty.

3) I believe that CCP can do a LOT to put alliances under pressure to fight botting at the player level too. It might seem unfair to make some players responsible for the actions of other players but botting affects everyone and often times bots can go about their business with the knowledge (and even support) of "accomplices" who *do* share some of the responsibility and who are not held responsible for their actions (or lack thereof).

This has to end. As far as I know CCP still uses the "three strike" method for banning bots.... well this has to include people who support the bot by ignoring/supporting it. After strike 1 If a bot is identified then corp leaders of the affected corp need to be informed about the bot and the names of all in-corp characters associated to the bot. At this point there are no consequences for corp but corp is made "owner" of the problem to some extent.

At strike 2 if corp has done nothing to take ownership of "their" problem they are "fined" a given amount of isk (maybe what the bot makes in a day, which is often +/- 4-6 billion isk) and at strike 3 all corp assets are seized and the character (and alts) are forcefully removed from corp. Remember, corp leaders had 3 chances to follow up on this and did nothing before we get to this point.

Same can hold true for alliances. At strike 1 alliance leaders are informed of the name of the corp who had their bot banned. At strike 2 the alliance is fined (maybe 5x what the bot makes in a day (ie. +/- 30 billion isk) and at strike 3 the system where the bot was active is forcefully stripped of sov. The TCU and IHUB are simply deleted and any sov dependent production in process in that system will simply stop.

4) I believe some retroactive action is needed. I submit that at least 1/2 of the titans and God knows how many super-caps in the game were built and/or financed with the help of bots. And just like in RL terrorist networks have their money streams analysed and disrupted, I believe that in cases where corps/alliances can be *proven* to have used bots to build their supercapital fleet need to get a visit from CCP and be asked to pay *again* for the cost of that ship. If they can't (or won't) then the ship gets deleted.

As an "honest" player in this game it only seems reasonable to me that not only botting but the "fruits of botting" are banned.

T-
Lady Spink
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#214 - 2012-03-02 15:48:54 UTC
it seems everybody is very positive about the Bot removals.

There are some downsides:

-- No more ez ganking (from now on, only non botters will be killed. they will cry and quit)
-- toons that can not be transferred within the CCP environment will now be sold on the black market. ccp will loose money
-- when the 1500 detected bots are gone. CCP has to fire about 4 people if Eve doesn't get more players.
-- There will be less Capital fights (costs will go up like crazy) And huge battles is what CCP use for eve marketing.
-- Most fun kills are the haulers with botted stuff. Pirates will loose interest because they will only see each others instead of those fully loaded freighters.

If I was CCP i would do this only if the server population is too high. If you would need more hardware, costs might rise.

However if CCP could measure the positive effect of banning botters (more subscriptions) all is fine of course. That is something that has to be taken into consideration.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#215 - 2012-03-02 15:54:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Ptraci wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Over the past year I have seen one hulk in dek and it died.


Then you should pettition the decay rate for the industry levels over there then, cos they sure aren't decaying all that fast in systems like 5S-KXA and a whole bunch of other Industry 4, 3 and 2 systems that I won't bother mentioning. You need what, 12 million m3/24h to prevent an indy 5 from decaying, and 6 million m3 for an indy 4? Twice that amount for ice.

Yah, no miners in goon space. Your fart stinks.


our miners are literally just a few multiboxers

we do not have alliance mining ops, and mining is really ****** in nullsec so it's far from being anybody's primary source of income

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#216 - 2012-03-02 16:24:19 UTC
Lady Spink wrote:
it seems everybody is very positive about the Bot removals.

There are some downsides:

-- No more ez ganking (from now on, only non botters will be killed. they will cry and quit)
-- toons that can not be transferred within the CCP environment will now be sold on the black market. ccp will loose money
-- when the 1500 detected bots are gone. CCP has to fire about 4 people if Eve doesn't get more players.
-- There will be less Capital fights (costs will go up like crazy) And huge battles is what CCP use for eve marketing.
-- Most fun kills are the haulers with botted stuff. Pirates will loose interest because they will only see each others instead of those fully loaded freighters.

If I was CCP i would do this only if the server population is too high. If you would need more hardware, costs might rise.

However if CCP could measure the positive effect of banning botters (more subscriptions) all is fine of course. That is something that has to be taken into consideration.



Worst Poast Award.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
Aquila Draco
#217 - 2012-03-02 16:35:37 UTC
Lady Spink wrote:
it seems everybody is very positive about the Bot removals.

There are some downsides:

-- No more ez ganking (from now on, only non botters will be killed. they will cry and quit)
-- toons that can not be transferred within the CCP environment will now be sold on the black market. ccp will loose money
-- when the 1500 detected bots are gone. CCP has to fire about 4 people if Eve doesn't get more players.
-- There will be less Capital fights (costs will go up like crazy) And huge battles is what CCP use for eve marketing.
-- Most fun kills are the haulers with botted stuff. Pirates will loose interest because they will only see each others instead of those fully loaded freighters.

If I was CCP i would do this only if the server population is too high. If you would need more hardware, costs might rise.

However if CCP could measure the positive effect of banning botters (more subscriptions) all is fine of course. That is something that has to be taken into consideration.



Some ppl are just mentally challenged and wants make excuse why are theirs botts good thing for EVE and everybody. Lol
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#218 - 2012-03-02 16:38:15 UTC
Patortechiic

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#219 - 2012-03-02 18:03:10 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:

3) I believe that CCP can do a LOT to put alliances under pressure to fight botting at the player level too. It might seem unfair to make some players responsible for the actions of other players but botting affects everyone and often times bots can go about their business with the knowledge (and even support) of "accomplices" who *do* share some of the responsibility and who are not held responsible for their actions (or lack thereof).

This has to end. As far as I know CCP still uses the "three strike" method for banning bots.... well this has to include people who support the bot by ignoring/supporting it. After strike 1 If a bot is identified then corp leaders of the affected corp need to be informed about the bot and the names of all in-corp characters associated to the bot. At this point there are no consequences for corp but corp is made "owner" of the problem to some extent.

At strike 2 if corp has done nothing to take ownership of "their" problem they are "fined" a given amount of isk (maybe what the bot makes in a day, which is often +/- 4-6 billion isk) and at strike 3 all corp assets are seized and the character (and alts) are forcefully removed from corp. Remember, corp leaders had 3 chances to follow up on this and did nothing before we get to this point.

Same can hold true for alliances. At strike 1 alliance leaders are informed of the name of the corp who had their bot banned. At strike 2 the alliance is fined (maybe 5x what the bot makes in a day (ie. +/- 30 billion isk) and at strike 3 the system where the bot was active is forcefully stripped of sov. The TCU and IHUB are simply deleted and any sov dependent production in process in that system will simply stop.


Are you trolling or are you actually this dumb? I can't tell anymore.
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#220 - 2012-03-02 18:08:53 UTC
its eve-o so anyones guess really