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EVE: Inferno....STILL no Love for Industry
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#41 - 2012-02-23 22:03:25 UTC
How to help industry:

1) End drone alloys
2) Reduce the drop rate of low-meta modules in missions so fewer things are reprocessed
3) Crack down on mining and mission bots
4) Improve the clickfest that is PI and the S&I interface
5) Make it easier for people to blow stuff up / get blown up so that more industry is needed

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2012-02-23 22:10:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
Allow me to convey what I am sure our Mittani's sincere and heartfelt apology for failing to please Krixtal Icefluxor, noted for his good judgment and sensible tastes shown by enjoying ice mining. He will certainly readjust his priorities in light of this new information. I, and the community at large, appreciate your input.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#43 - 2012-02-24 03:02:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
Aineko Macx wrote:
As an academic exercise one could try to imagine eves economy in a closed loop model:
All ISK removed by sinks is put in a pool. ISK faucets scale dynamically based on the fullness of the pool.
CCP can easily track the relevant ISK movements and only has to decide what percentages of the total faucet volume goes to which player activity. By tuning the relative pool fullness level, CCP can easily control the ISK/effort ratio to the desired balance.


Already been done a few months (years?) ago by the economist. They worked out where most of the isk was coming from and surprisingly it was insurance payouts. So that got nerfed. Missions got nerfed next, etc.

But CCP has an even better mechanism to control the economy: PLEX. Because only CCP can create both PLEX and ISK, they can effectively "make" plex and push them onto the market, giving away game time (that didn't cost CCP anything*** because they made it) to soak up excess ISK. Since you would be buying these PLEX from a CCP alt, CCP would hold or destroy that ISK and thus remove it from the economy.

And they can also "make" ISK and inject it into the market by buying up PLEX that is for sale by players. The players don't know (or care) where the ISK comes from. And the PLEX again can be held by CCP or destroyed as they see fit. PLEX has effectively become as useful as a treasury note.

EDIT: *** not entirely true - it does cost CCP something - it costs them the revenue they would otherwise have gotten by people buying that PLEX from them. Maybe. You could argue that those people were just speculating and did not expect to actually buy PLEX. Either way despite the cost, CCP can see this as an investment into the smooth running of their game. So what if it costs a few thousand dollars' worth of revenue here and there if the economy is sustainable and stable in the long term? Because if the economy tanks and people stop playing, it will cost them a LOT more.
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-02-24 04:01:36 UTC
you've gotten less than a spit of information about the expansion, and you are already bitching? seriously? Grow up for christs sake you ungrateful pricks.

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#45 - 2012-02-24 11:33:14 UTC
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
I trust you have some suggestions for different ways to make selecting a blueprint and factory slot more interesting and exciting. Perhaps you're running for the CSM as a representative of industrialists? Have you even made a decent well thought out proposal to the current CSM in their forum?

Of course not; its so much easier to complain than it is to be a functional part of the solution.


God it's late. I need some sleep.................

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#46 - 2012-02-24 11:33:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
move along...

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Aineko Macx
#47 - 2012-02-26 18:01:15 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Aineko Macx wrote:
As an academic exercise one could try to imagine eves economy in a closed loop model:
All ISK removed by sinks is put in a pool. ISK faucets scale dynamically based on the fullness of the pool.
CCP can easily track the relevant ISK movements and only has to decide what percentages of the total faucet volume goes to which player activity. By tuning the relative pool fullness level, CCP can easily control the ISK/effort ratio to the desired balance.

This is the dream of every central planning banker. But it doesn't work, even in a closed model because within eve itself are innumerable variables. Once you tweak anything in the sandbox, it effects everything else.

Tuning payouts could undo work on other expansions, radically change fleet composition, alter the amount of combat, increase or decrease griefing, change population flows.

Of course it would affect all areas of the game more or less directly, but this is not at all different from the changes made to the game by CCP that have large repercussions. New activities or ships, buffs and nerfs. Except that CCP intervention is usually rare, late and often overdone.
If we can agree that a balance of faucets and sinks is desirable, it leads to the question of how to do it. CCP seems unable to do it and/or incurs the rage of a zillion bears when they even hint at a faucet nerf... Roll

Ptraci wrote:
But CCP has an even better mechanism to control the economy: PLEX. Because only CCP can create both PLEX and ISK, they can effectively "make" plex and push them onto the market, giving away game time (that didn't cost CCP anything*** because they made it) to soak up excess ISK. Since you would be buying these PLEX from a CCP alt, CCP would hold or destroy that ISK and thus remove it from the economy.

And they can also "make" ISK and inject it into the market by buying up PLEX that is for sale by players. The players don't know (or care) where the ISK comes from. And the PLEX again can be held by CCP or destroyed as they see fit. PLEX has effectively become as useful as a treasury note.

For all we know CCPs influence on the PLEX market so far has only been through RL promotions. Even though they are considering it, they denied having ever manipulated PLEXs by interacting with the in-game market. Ofc if there is proof showing otherwise, please share.

iveeCore 3.0: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#48 - 2012-02-26 18:13:51 UTC
Julian Koll wrote:


however what i (and i guess lots of others) want is a iteration on the mind numbing clickfest that is the industrial interface at the moment. try starting 90 jobs each day for a week or two and you get a really good feeling of what could be improved in the s&i interface.




Its what 3 clicks and done? I spend most of my time lugging the minerals about and seconds setting up manufacturing/research/invention orders.
Otin Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Cat Scratch Fevers
#49 - 2012-02-26 18:51:43 UTC
As an idustry minded toon, I really don't think industry needs more "stuff", just a refinement of what we have.

Here are just a few ideas that I would consider an industry update.

1. Starting jobs, be it manufacture, research, invention ... less of a clickfest, if I am starting 10 jobs in a row at the same facility, why do I have to select it every dang time?

2. PI clickfest. Not exactly sure how to reduce the number of clicks so, any ideas will be welcome. It is currently MUCH better than the original PI but, some tweeks could be made.

3. Exhumer Buff. as these are T2 ships and paper tanked, a slight buff to either HP and/or extra mid or low-slot with CPU/PG to match would not make them un-gankable but would not make it quite so easy.

4. Corp Management Interface. Any improvements to make this a bit more intuative would benifit all corps.

5. Remove/change Drone Region drops. :-)

6. A mechanism to make Bot-mining more difficult. All belts must be scanned daily?
Sloppy Podfarts
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-02-26 18:52:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Its what 3 clicks and done? I spend most of my time lugging the minerals about and seconds setting up manufacturing/research/invention orders.


OWNED
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#51 - 2012-02-26 18:53:40 UTC
Im sorry but my ideas would make most industiralist squirm a bit.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#52 - 2012-02-26 19:12:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Weaselior wrote:
Allow me to convey what I am sure our Mittani's sincere and heartfelt apology for failing to please Krixtal Icefluxor, noted for his good judgment and sensible tastes shown by enjoying ice mining. He will certainly readjust his priorities in light of this new information. I, and the community at large, appreciate your input.



Quite a HUGE STRETCH from the simplicity of my OP.

GOD you guys are pathetic.....................

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
#53 - 2012-03-01 15:50:58 UTC
i gotta agree, i dont want a buff, im not whining about "waah! i dont make 9billion isk/hour in my hulk!" im not even going to gripe about t2 bpos

just make things a little bit more efficient. it is NOT just 3 clicks for some of us. try inventing 20 BPCs every 40 minutes for days. it gets pretty annoying. This isnt a hhuge change either (no setting up invention jobs will never be "fun") but you could just go in and add a few lines of code to streamline things a bit and make a bunch of industrialists much happier.

this forum is full of the suggestions Im talking about, though I will say the OP did not outline any of them

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=69591&find=unread

Rixiu
PonyTek
#54 - 2012-03-01 16:08:35 UTC
CCP sees no need to improve industry since their mid-term goal is to replace the player crafting with ships and items directly in the nex store.
Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
#55 - 2012-03-02 03:25:04 UTC
Rixiu wrote:
CCP sees no need to improve industry since their mid-term goal is to replace the player crafting with ships and items directly in the nex store.


uhmm...so...False.

Direct line from CCP director is that functional items will never be sold in NEX.

ONLY items that have NO impact on gameplay will be sold in the NEX store.
Tarikan
Preload Thorium
Insidious.
#56 - 2012-03-02 03:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarikan
When you say industry gets no love, do you mean no significant change?

the Assault Frig buff has basically made all AFs double in price, if that's not a buff to some part of industry obviously you don't know what industry is....granted i don't know either vOv.

I'm assuming you mean you want to get the same payment as ratters, mission runners, incursion bears, and exploration nuts?

EDIT: Proof reading would help me better
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#57 - 2012-03-02 03:32:09 UTC
T'Pawhl
Doomheim
#58 - 2012-03-18 20:49:36 UTC
Heh, EVE Online is now run by the null-bears, and they bot their Industry anyhow, so of course there's not going to be any Industry updates...

In fact, if anything, they would nerf Industry, IE more expensive fuel, move ICE out of hi-sec, add more taxes, etc etc to give themselves a bigger edge- oh wait that's exactly what happened....
Duvida
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-03-19 07:20:00 UTC
I'm looking forward to the expansion after Inferno, "Mists of Panda-Jita".

But yeah, the push for 'war' in Inferno will probably indirectly benefit industry. But what specific items of improvement, or even new things, were you thinking of?
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#60 - 2012-03-19 08:44:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Gorki Andropov
Look at the industrybear cry, abloo bloo bloo


e: to be constructive, industry - structurally speaking - is far less broken than other parts of the game. Fix those first, and then look at industry.