Warfare & Tactics

There are frequent threads about fixing local and/or AFK cloaking including two active ones at the moment. Parties always seem to make suggestions tailored to their own need or game style. In this post I will make a suggestion that I believe creates a win / win.

The idea in a nutshell is this:

1) If you are cloaked and active in local then your avatar will disappear from local chat.
2) jumping in/out and logging on/off your avatar will be visible in local for X amount of time (30 sec?)
3) If you go AFK while cloaked then your avatar will become visible after X amount of time (30 mins?)

What this does creates a number of wins:

A) From the perpsective of the cloaker:

1) You can get into a system and as long as you are active then stealth really DOES mean stealth. You can sneak up and surprise people who didn't know you were there, just like it works in wormholes. This is good and creates more chances for engagements

2) It will mean the end of bot ratting as we know it because possible bots can easily be identified by looking at Dotlan and this mechanic will allow for the creation of a whole new occupation for small-gangs, namely bot-hunters. The ability to be invisible on local will mean catching bots will become much easier. (this will allow players to do for themselves what CCP has failed to do for us, namely stop botting).

B) From the perspective of ratters

1) It will mean the end of the AFK cloaker who only sits in a system to disrupt ratting activities and wakes up once or twice a day to do something. You will now be able to clearly see (after X amount of time) when the cloaker has gone inactive.

2) There will be an increased threat from poor intel but an even greater increased safety by knowing when an AFK cloaker has come back to his computer (namely because his avatar will suddenly disappear from local). This creates better opportunities for knowing when it's safe to rat and when it's not safe to rat with a cloaker in the system, which translates into less wasted time and more isk in your wallet.

If you would like CCP to look into this idea then "Like" this post so they notice.

T-

I would say Just make it like WH space, no sign that you are in local until you speak.

Alot more exciting that way and makes you pay attention to D scan that much more

Perhaps only do that for 0.0

This idea gets proposed often but there would appear to be too much resistance to it. Basically, it's time for a new out-of-the-box idea.

Local is both a blessing and a curse and my proposal (I believe) finds a way to address the curse, to some extent, without undermining the blessing.

T-

Local is fine.

All the anti-local proposals make the game worse.

Cloak hunters are Coming Soon® (csm minutes)

Wut? A module that decloaks stuff off-grid and not on-grid? Are you batty?

Personally, as stated on the other thread, people need to man up and deal with cloakers (AFK or not). I can empathise with their plight, as all fully functioning humans can - after all when you see someone in pain, you feel a bit of their pain. In this case, though, empathy does not extend to pity or agreement.

The idea of having people's avatars disappear from Local when they are AFK, well, that couldn't be exploited now, could it? Why don't I put 30 dudes in system and park them in cloaky tengus or bombers in a Sanctum. I put #31 in system in a covops, making sure everyone sees I am in a hrmless little helios, and then wait till the other 30 disappear. Eventually some fool is going to put his carrier or mach into the sanctum the guys are AFK cloaked at (and no longer in Local!) and voila, you holler on vent. Everyone wakes up, twitches a mouse, appears in local, decloaks and kills everything.

Congratulations, your idea is utterly crap, and will ASSIST with people ganking fools. I mean, come on.

The OP's arguments about botters are irrelevant. Your bot will be do exactly the same as before because the moment you so much as twitch a mouse, you appear in local and he warps to POS. Herpaderp!

I have no problem with degraded Local in nullsec. Something like, for instance, showing only numbers of toons in a system without upgraded comms, versus actual names. You'll be able to handle this with good intel, and spot neut spikes, but if you are lazy you will get hosed.

I would also wonder why there is any Local at all in the drone regions. Removing Local there would make sense from a RP perspective (drones not being renowned for supply of public services) and would give the area an entirely different flaour. Remember, you can still get stats on your star map in k-space, such as jumps per hour, rat kills, people in space, ship kills, etc, unlike in w-space (excluding wormnav or staticmapper OOG tools). This would create an environment where people could roam in REAL nullsec, without Local, hunting fleeting signatures of human activity via their maps.

It would also, tangentially, really, really crimp the DRF botter hordes.

Finally, if you were organised like w-space denizens are when they are carebearing, you'd bubble the gates or park scouts on gates to manage your risk.

Why local is broken.

1) Instant intel
2) Perfectly safe nullsec (due to instant intel)
3) Perfectly safe instant intel for bots - (BROKEN!)

Or if you want from another perspective

1) Instant intel
2) Snap decisions to engage or not engage based on exact fleet numbers in system
3) Impossible to have a real element of surprise

no local would mean

1) More surprises HALLO!
2) More small gang engagement/action.
3) Far more dynamic nullsec and lowsec combat mechanics

How do we know this? Cause it's how it turns out in WHs that's why.

Problem is it would mean then end of the nullsec bots and the nullsec bears. Seems they would not be happy.


Having said that I agree that K-space should not be like W-space, if you remove local in K-space you need to add other intel tools.

But local IS broken, or at least hampers dynamic action and favours at least some very nefarious activities out in null so... I have to disagree and state very clearly that local is broken.

Delayed local = nerf on botters, carebears and the lazy, and neutral for everyone who can open the d-scanner and stab a button while their guns cycle, and a buff for people who hunt botters, lazy idiots and carebears
Reduced local info (as above) = nerf on the lazy (you could program a bot to dock if Local went +1) and a buff for people who hunt botters, lazy idiots and carebears
Removed local = nerf for botters, carebears, and the lazy and a buff for everyone.

Now, as to your assertion people should appear in Local in w-space for 5 minutes, GTFO my game.

"Instant intel:" You need instant intel because if you get the intel too late it does no good. If you don't get intel that is any good then you are playing a game where intel is irrelevant. And that dumbs eve down.

"Perfectly safe null sec:" People lose ships in null sec much more often than in no local wormholes.

"Perfectly safe for bots" Whatever system you implement bots will be able to adapt. Just because bots use local now that doesn't mean it won't be able to use whatever replacement system is implemented.

More "surprises"? "Surprises" of having a blob/ecm/logi warping to you every time you engage a ship is already so common its hardly a surprising "surprise" anymore. Its really a big turn off for this game. Learn how to pvp so you don't need to always have huge amounts of back up to bail you out of every engagement you get in.

More small gang pvp?? We know this because of wormholes? You haven't looked at any of the actual data. Wormholes only get *a fraction* of the pvp known space gets per pilot. Wormholes are not popular for the vast majority of pvpers. You also get a much larger percent of of lopsided ganks in wormholes than in known space.

No local where you can't get any intel and basically are completely rollign dice everyengagement is a big part of it.

Better idea.

If you're in system and uncloaked: You can see local, but you can be seen in local.
If you're in system and cloaked: You cannot see local, but local cannot see you.