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Cloak Fuel - A cure to afk cloaking
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L'Acuto
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2012-02-20 14:33:30 UTC
A cloak fuel rule change might create a momentary spike in fuel prices. Place your bets on Stront, racial topes, coolant, and/or liquid O.
TurAmarth ElRandir
Hiigaran Bounty Hunters Inc.
#202 - 2012-02-29 15:06:08 UTC
OK, the basic issue is not that cloaking as a mechanic is 'broken',
it's not that having a pilot in a system who cannot be 'found' is scary;

It is the use of cloaking AND cyno together that is the core issue. A pilot in a cloaked ship at a well made safespot is COMPLETELY SAFE from attack by defending pilots until he decides to uncloak. If he then uses a cyno, the ships that come in, can avoid using defendable gates or closable wormholes in order to enter and leave the system anywhere in that system... this is, of course, the EVE famous "hotdrop". When the cloaky/cyno pilot hotdrops a PvP fleet onto PvE ships or mining shps, the aggressors have an unbalanced advantage.

OK, so change the cloak & cyno mechanic so that NO SHIP IN EVE CAN FIT A CLOAK AND A CYNO AT THE SAME TIME.

This is the simplest solution... CPU needs for a cloak are extreme and require a special ship type... ok, a slight change to the Cynosaural Field Generator module and if any cloak is fitted, active or not, a cyno CANNOT ever have enough CPU to be onlined even with a full set of CPU mods in the low slots.

Cloaks and cloaking is totally unaffected in W-space.

In null, AFK Cloakers are not affected in thier intel gathering and safety while cloaked... they just can't be the focal point of an indefensable incursion by a fleet into a system anymoar.

You want to open a cyno? Have your cloaky make a BM or sit on the desired warp in point and your cyno ship has to risk the run through the gate/hole then risk the run to the cloaky or BM and THEN you can light off your cyno and make with the violencing of boats... and the people in the system have a chance to organize a response.... fight back or dock up. Don't like em docking up? Fine... keep your fleet in there and you can risk that to carry out your Income Denial Op instead of ONE lone AFK char...

Who knows? Mebbe the ability of the defenders to actuallly fight back in PvP fitted ships instead of being hotdropped in PvE ships might just stir up a response and get you some PvP... only on moar balanced terms for all....

Go ahead, rage and cry about how unfair this would be... and how I suc at life because I want to fight back in a ship that stands a chance of winning.

TurAmarth ElRandir Anoikis Merc, Salvager, Logibro and Unrepentant Blogger Fly Wreckless and see you in the Sky =/|)= http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/
Kitt JT
True North.
#203 - 2012-02-29 22:22:02 UTC
Here's the thing. I hate afk cloakers as much as the next guy (i really do).
But this system has some problems

First of all, a cloakey hauler with a cyno could still stay cloaked for an entire day

Second, it would limit bomber ops by fuel as well.

Standard procedure for a bomber fleet is to get to a system well in advance of hostiles, and have bombing runs set up. It would become a logistical nightmare for bombers to have to carry fuel on top of their already tight cargo requirements (only 4 bombs with 2 in a t1 launcher, and a couple hundred torps as it is).

Although I do agree, a solution to afk cloakers would be nice, none of the proposed solutions are suitable.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#204 - 2012-02-29 23:26:47 UTC
This idea has never been posted before!

No...sorry...it has. Still a good idea but still going the same way every thread before this one has. +1

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2012-02-29 23:47:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Fuel? too boring... CCP will probably bring a Cloak hunting ship... that will bb a good fix...

Afk cloakers ruins the game of small alliances, while does almost no harm to big ones... this is unfair...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#206 - 2012-03-01 09:56:25 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
Fuel? too boring... CCP will probably bring a Cloak hunting ship... that will bb a good fix...

Afk cloakers ruins the game of small alliances, while does almost no harm to big ones... this is unfair...


which "small alliance" are you talking about??
afk cloaking actually hurts pet alliances living in some other alliances space because they cant go ratting somewhere else but the only system they rent. But this is the problem of being pet, not of cloaking, (afk)cloaking is working fine.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#207 - 2012-03-01 10:17:39 UTC
Twice Necro'd, just let it die in peace guys, this has been discussed to death in many forums over many threads.

Fact: Cloaking has been part of the game for a long time

Fact: Cloaking is used in every part of Eve, infact it is a requirement for many WH Corps

Personal Thoery: Null-bears and botters are the only ones that are complaining about AFK Cloakers

Personal Opinion: None of the ideas presented in any of the anti-afk cloaking threads even take into account the effects of how their idea's would change Wormholes

Fact: Instant Intel that is 100% accurate is a serious problem and should be addressed so that no more of these threads will ever be made

Fact: My best ratting is done while AFK Cloakers are in the system I rat in

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Asudem
Black Spear.
#208 - 2012-03-01 10:53:20 UTC
[sarcasm]
Oh and while you change the cloaking system, how about changing the war decing system as well? I mean, griefers shouldnt keep indus away from their belt by wardecing their corp. Indu people quit the game 'cause of that!
[/sarcasm]

There is always someone who will complain about griefing. I just say, no risk no isk.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#209 - 2012-03-01 11:44:00 UTC
Quote:
Who knows? Mebbe the ability of the defenders to actuallly fight back in PvP fitted ships instead of being hotdropped in PvE ships might just stir up a response and get you some PvP... only on moar balanced terms for all....

Go ahead, rage and cry about how unfair this would be... and how I suc at life because I want to fight back in a ship that stands a chance of winning.



When I pass a gate camp I would like a fighting chance and not being swarmed.

When mining in high-sec I'd like to ganker to pronouce them self long upfront.

When fighting a frigate with my frigate I would like to attacker not to use the skill points he has more than me.

Even better I want people only to fire up on me when I say I'm ready.

The fact that you can't control everything is what makes EVE dangerous, and the hotdrop one of the few mechanisms that can be used against large alliances.

All solutions I've seen to this so called problem only solve this for 0.0 sec. WH Space, Low Sec, and even in high Sec, your solution wouldn't chance anything to the chance of being jumped up on, so technicly the only thing you do is making 0.0 sec a saferplace for the people living in it, in comparisation to all other parts of New Eden.

Personly I think your solution would remove even more people from 0.0 instead of gaining people. PvP will be reduced to gate camping and large battles. doesn't make it more appealing to me.

And I'm not a person that does a lot of PvP, but if I wanted to play a game in which every encounter would be on my own terms I would never have stayed playing EVE.
Anshio Tamark
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#210 - 2012-03-01 12:14:50 UTC
I've said it before, and I'm saying it again: WHY do cloaks need to be changed? I've only used cloaks for the last year or so, and I don't think there's anything wrong with cloaks. I use cloaks whenever I probe, because I know my Covert Ops Frigate is an easy target for gankers, and I don't want to lose it if I can avoid it. I cloak when I need to move BPs around, because I know someone out there wants to kill me and loot them. I cloak when I'm moving through low-sec systems in hopes I won't be spotted. But I don't warp to a "safe"-spot and cloak. People should feel free to cloak up when they want to, regardless of what others may say.

Or, if you prefer the short version:
No.
Herold Oldtimer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#211 - 2012-03-01 14:39:31 UTC
TurAmarth ElRandir wrote:
OK, the basic issue is not that cloaking as a mechanic is 'broken',
it's not that having a pilot in a system who cannot be 'found' is scary;

It is the use of cloaking AND cyno together that is the core issue. A pilot in a cloaked ship at a well made safespot is COMPLETELY SAFE from attack by defending pilots until he decides to uncloak. If he then uses a cyno, the ships that come in, can avoid using defendable gates or closable wormholes in order to enter and leave the system anywhere in that system... this is, of course, the EVE famous "hotdrop". When the cloaky/cyno pilot hotdrops a PvP fleet onto PvE ships or mining shps, the aggressors have an unbalanced advantage.

OK, so change the cloak & cyno mechanic so that NO SHIP IN EVE CAN FIT A CLOAK AND A CYNO AT THE SAME TIME.

This is the simplest solution... CPU needs for a cloak are extreme and require a special ship type... ok, a slight change to the Cynosaural Field Generator module and if any cloak is fitted, active or not, a cyno CANNOT ever have enough CPU to be onlined even with a full set of CPU mods in the low slots.

Cloaks and cloaking is totally unaffected in W-space.

In null, AFK Cloakers are not affected in thier intel gathering and safety while cloaked... they just can't be the focal point of an indefensable incursion by a fleet into a system anymoar.

You want to open a cyno? Have your cloaky make a BM or sit on the desired warp in point and your cyno ship has to risk the run through the gate/hole then risk the run to the cloaky or BM and THEN you can light off your cyno and make with the violencing of boats... and the people in the system have a chance to organize a response.... fight back or dock up. Don't like em docking up? Fine... keep your fleet in there and you can risk that to carry out your Income Denial Op instead of ONE lone AFK char...

Who knows? Mebbe the ability of the defenders to actuallly fight back in PvP fitted ships instead of being hotdropped in PvE ships might just stir up a response and get you some PvP... only on moar balanced terms for all....

Go ahead, rage and cry about how unfair this would be... and how I suc at life because I want to fight back in a ship that stands a chance of winning.


This is a good idea. And yeah, you might get some hate from this, but not from me. +1
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#212 - 2012-03-01 14:53:19 UTC
TurAmarth ElRandir wrote:
...

It is the use of cloaking AND cyno together that is the core issue. A pilot in a cloaked ship at a well made safespot is COMPLETELY SAFE from attack by defending pilots until he decides to uncloak. If he then uses a cyno, the ships that come in, can avoid using defendable gates or closable wormholes in order to enter and leave the system anywhere in that system... this is, of course, the EVE famous "hotdrop". When the cloaky/cyno pilot hotdrops a PvP fleet onto PvE ships or mining shps, the aggressors have an unbalanced advantage.

...

Actually this would make sense in a way if covert ships could still use covert cyno's. So it would still be possible to do some cloak+cyno, but it would require Black Ops and have no capitals involved. Cool
Amanda Sterling
Doomheim
#213 - 2012-03-01 22:32:11 UTC
I've read the proposal. And also read the answers to see if they provided something interesting.

Not.

AFK cloakers are part of the risk of living in nullsec. Deal with it or go back to empire space.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#214 - 2012-03-01 22:37:12 UTC
Amanda Sterling wrote:
I've read the proposal. And also read the answers to see if they provided something interesting.

Not.

AFK cloakers are part of the risk of living in nullsec. Deal with it or go back to empire space.

I want more risk in null, but not from AFK cloaking. I'd prefer time delayed local or something, afk cloaking is a boring tactic even though it is currently necessary.

For the most part I think the people who use it as a tactic hate it as much as those being targeted by them, it's just stupid that people are so safe in null that the only way to kill the majority of players is by sitting in a system AFK for days until they get used to you.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Waukesha
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#215 - 2012-03-01 23:08:39 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
NO, the only thing you'll do with this sort of idea is make bots more profitable than ever.

Is it what you want?

Your a tool.

Its a good idea.
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#216 - 2012-03-01 23:30:46 UTC
I guess that's a fine idea. But I want it to burn slow as hell. And some ships I'd like to see use no cloak fuel. Like the cloaky haulers, I've sat 350km off a gate for an hour or so watching a gate camp to see if there's a change. And I don't want to be punished for seeing if I can wait a camp out in a cloak hauler.
VeryNice
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#217 - 2012-03-01 23:59:08 UTC
Make a standing fleet join it get on cons go rat you get attacked yell help system belt etc cloaker gets butt raped issue solved
Stfu quit crying life is not fair either should eve be maybe real life snipers and tactical untits should carry a neon sign for the enemy on their back I'm right here watching you. Nothing cries more then a eve online player
Asudem
Black Spear.
#218 - 2012-03-02 08:12:40 UTC
I know a cool solution: close this stupid thread.
Nicki O
ChickenTime 2
#219 - 2012-03-02 13:03:14 UTC
the problem is not the afk cloaker, the problem is the moment he decloaks.
the afk cloaker has 2 major advantages - they can pick their target and there is no reaction time for the carebear. take them away.


just to add 2 other solutions:

1. add a raising cap penalty over time for using cloak
cloak for a short time - almost no difference
cloak for a long time - good luck warping or activating any modules

can be countered with cap boosters

could also add a cap need for cloaks - so that you will decloak after a certain time


2. just add certain penalites for staying cloaked too long
cloaked for a longer time - cyno and tackle will no longer function on the ship till it stays uncloaked for 5 mins or docks/changes system etc.
eddie valvetino
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#220 - 2012-03-02 14:50:27 UTC
i got really bored readding this, so no doubt i'm just repeating points already made.

1. Log on, see no pvp ops and a lone cloaked alt in system = log off? Really... You can't just go to another system?

2. Seems you want pve is little risk, might i suggest high sec lvl4 missions, rather than unlawful 0.0?

I may be missing the point here, but it seems you want a rather large change to module mechanics in order to let you rat and make iskies... Hey why don't ccp give you alone access to gate control so you can prevent jump ins, or better still maybe they could give you your own concord fleet to keep you safe while you rat.

good greif

Edd