These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP : MACRO BANNINGS

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
You're Mum
The New Eden Yacht Club
The New Eden Yacht Club.
#161 - 2012-03-01 08:00:36 UTC
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Latest: Translation from Italian Newspaper (has to do with ban !):

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quilivorno.it%2Fcronaca-nera%2F2-livorno%2F8116-studente-su-internet-qse-mi-buttate-fuori-dal-gioco-mi-uccidoq-dallislanda-scatta-lallarme-a-livorno.html&act=url


TLDR: You do not joke about committing a suicide in your petition to GMs (for example, when they ban you for botting). Doing so will trigger a fairly standard response - a report to the local police with IP address and subscriber info (if available), to check if the guy is not joking.

This has happened before on various MMOs and many times over. Every single time it has resulted in police officers at the door. Unless you feel like explaining to the police about your "funny" "joke", don't do it. Customer support people everywhere will thank you. It must be a massive hassle to track down local law enforcement contacts in a hurry and try to convince them to send someone over - because that's what the poor support guy, by standard procedure, has to do. Otherwise if the "joker" actually isn't joking, there would be a massive drama bomb how the game caused the suicide and the support didn't intervene when they could have. CCP (or any other MMO publisher) can't take that risk.

Oh, and saying so won't get you unbanned if that's your idea with the "joke".



yeah i saw that new site.... and lawl'd hard.

Cant believe that proven botters think they have a leg to stand on when it comes to petitions,

CCP’s song: 99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs, you take one down patch it around, 127 little bugs in the code
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#162 - 2012-03-01 08:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

Nobody around here will accept "some people might be wronged so don't do anything" arguments. Botting is bad enough that people are willing to accept the risk of an error from time to time. This game is not run like real life where giving your neighbor the power to rat you out to the cops on anything they can make up means it's garunteed to happen. (you are probably safer in the game from this kind of false reporting than such shenanigans in RL).



Nobody around here would take my post as "some people might be wronged so don't do anything" arguments, except you.

I just want the players to have the *instruments* to eventually prove they were innocent in case they are banned wrong.
CCP HAVE to do anything vs cheaters, but players should then be able to do *something* in case they were picked by mistake.

Now reread this sentence and look how different it reads compared to your belief.

People with high visibility are naturally exposed to all sorts of vendettas and competition.
If you are a 3rd party service or similar, you WILL deal with fiercely opposing factions and then you WILL be subject to "emergent meta gaming".

Getting in position of being an auditor / collateral holder / 3rd party service (and others) is not the same as levelling a new Retriever alt. It takes years and years. This is why I don't like the complete inability to defend. Whatever happens just because one day or week or month I decided to do some missions / ratting and even mining (!) will forever destroy my main activities (in the signature in case it's not evident enough).
Guess what happens if I'd even get 10 days ban (or whatever is the minimum) and I had to contract a Supercarrier in my possession back to a loanee during those 10 days? People would cry scam, "he cashed out", whatever and I'd be thrown in the mud. Just because I did PvE sometimes earlier.

What to do to PROVE that someone gamed the system against me? There's nothing available at all.


Edit: practical example that happened in the past: a guy had to give collateral for an IPO (read: he wanted to start a BPO copy corp and asked Market Discussion investors for some billions).
I was chosen as collateral holder. After some months they guy contacted me in terror, as one of those who borrowed him money was banned for RMT.
Now what happens? That the game has ZERO mechanics to defend him (or me). To CCP it would just look like the other guy laundered RMT money. And in turn with that money the IPO investee bought the BPOs I held as collateral. How would I prove I don't matter at all with those two, in case CCP decided a chain investigation before I returned the BPOs?

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#163 - 2012-03-01 11:09:57 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
but believe me please that Fanfest wasn't a factor whatsoever.



So it was the CSM elections then. Interesting! Lol
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#164 - 2012-03-01 13:36:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Henry Haphorn
I loved reading the tears on the Fail Heap Challenge. Now I have to go look into my list of people I scouted earlier to see if they went poof because of Mr. Ban Hammer.

EDIT:

I also noticed that CCP never made an announcement about this. It was merely just us forum dwellers who noticed the bot forums being flooded with bountiful, yet tasty, tears. If this really was a pre-fanfest PR stunt by CCP, then this is a very odd way of announcing the bans. In fact, this would have been swept under the rug had it not been for us forum dwellers who thankfully spy the bot forums for intel on how to catch them.

Anyways, I always wondered... if there was ever a mathematical formula for calculating the quality of the tears on the bot forums, what would it look like?

Adapt or Die
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#165 - 2012-03-01 14:45:56 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
EVE does fingerprint your computer you idiots

non-******** botters use a launcher that spoofs the fingerprint (and monitors the fingerprint code for any changes), hides injected dlls from the client and prevents crashes from getting reported (doing this via the official client setting might be a red flag, who kows?).


A lot of people (especially software developers) disable all automatic crash reporting due to NDAs and such.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Sverige Pahis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#166 - 2012-03-01 14:53:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Sverige Pahis
Henry Haphorn wrote:
I loved reading the tears on the Fail Heap Challenge. Now I have to go look into my list of people I scouted earlier to see if they went poof because of Mr. Ban Hammer.

EDIT:

I also noticed that CCP never made an announcement about this. It was merely just us forum dwellers who noticed the bot forums being flooded with bountiful, yet tasty, tears. If this really was a pre-fanfest PR stunt by CCP, then this is a very odd way of announcing the bans. In fact, this would have been swept under the rug had it not been for us forum dwellers who thankfully spy the bot forums for intel on how to catch them.

Anyways, I always wondered... if there was ever a mathematical formula for calculating the quality of the tears on the bot forums, what would it look like?



y = number of unique accounts banned

x = number of botters

as dy/dx approaches infinity tears --> ∞
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#167 - 2012-03-01 15:20:44 UTC
Xantor Bludberry wrote:
Another question: When will the DEV BLOG?

Soon! Big smile

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Rex Augustus
Perkone
Caldari State
#168 - 2012-03-01 15:39:19 UTC
CCP Teases us, TEASES US!!!

Damn you...

Good job, Darius and crew. Keep killing botters erryday.
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#169 - 2012-03-01 15:42:54 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Sreegs
Andski wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
EVE does fingerprint your computer you idiots

non-******** botters use a launcher that spoofs the fingerprint (and monitors the fingerprint code for any changes), hides injected dlls from the client and prevents crashes from getting reported (doing this via the official client setting might be a red flag, who kows?).


A lot of people (especially software developers) disable all automatic crash reporting due to NDAs and such.


That's not what he's referring to and there's not a single NDA in the world that allows you to violate the EULA. If you can't play by the rules you agreed to then don't.

:edit: And unless what he's referring to is within the client (It's not that I'm aware of) then it is a EULA violation and you will be permanently banned for it the first time.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
sakurako
State War Academy
Caldari State
#170 - 2012-03-01 15:47:25 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Xantor Bludberry wrote:
Another question: When will the DEV BLOG?

Soon! Big smile

soon or soontm
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#171 - 2012-03-01 16:15:53 UTC  |  Edited by: arcca jeth
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

Nobody around here will accept "some people might be wronged so don't do anything" arguments. Botting is bad enough that people are willing to accept the risk of an error from time to time. This game is not run like real life where giving your neighbor the power to rat you out to the cops on anything they can make up means it's garunteed to happen. (you are probably safer in the game from this kind of false reporting than such shenanigans in RL).



Nobody around here would take my post as "some people might be wronged so don't do anything" arguments, except you.

I just want the players to have the *instruments* to eventually prove they were innocent in case they are banned wrong.
CCP HAVE to do anything vs cheaters, but players should then be able to do *something* in case they were picked by mistake.

Now reread this sentence and look how different it reads compared to your belief.

People with high visibility are naturally exposed to all sorts of vendettas and competition.
If you are a 3rd party service or similar, you WILL deal with fiercely opposing factions and then you WILL be subject to "emergent meta gaming".

Getting in position of being an auditor / collateral holder / 3rd party service (and others) is not the same as levelling a new Retriever alt. It takes years and years. This is why I don't like the complete inability to defend. Whatever happens just because one day or week or month I decided to do some missions / ratting and even mining (!) will forever destroy my main activities (in the signature in case it's not evident enough).
Guess what happens if I'd even get 10 days ban (or whatever is the minimum) and I had to contract a Supercarrier in my possession back to a loanee during those 10 days? People would cry scam, "he cashed out", whatever and I'd be thrown in the mud. Just because I did PvE sometimes earlier.

What to do to PROVE that someone gamed the system against me? There's nothing available at all.


Edit: practical example that happened in the past: a guy had to give collateral for an IPO (read: he wanted to start a BPO copy corp and asked Market Discussion investors for some billions).
I was chosen as collateral holder. After some months they guy contacted me in terror, as one of those who borrowed him money was banned for RMT.
Now what happens? That the game has ZERO mechanics to defend him (or me). To CCP it would just look like the other guy laundered RMT money. And in turn with that money the IPO investee bought the BPOs I held as collateral. How would I prove I don't matter at all with those two, in case CCP decided a chain investigation before I returned the BPOs?


emails? chat logs? to name a few. you have chosen a rare line of work that can get you into sticky situations if you do not know who you are dealing with. so in your case, your tools to protect yourself is plain and simple, DOCUMENTATION. CCP doesn't need to provide you with squat. Don't be lazy and be a PRO.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#172 - 2012-03-01 16:24:42 UTC
sakurako wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
Xantor Bludberry wrote:
Another question: When will the DEV BLOG?

Soon! Big smile

soon or soontm


Soon-TFU!

/me refreshes the devblog page too often...

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#173 - 2012-03-01 16:33:52 UTC
One of the better comments I've seen:

"Listening to some goons crying on comms saying it was only supposed to be the drone regions and high sec bots to be banned is glorious."

If true, then the null bots did in fact get hit, without favoritism.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#174 - 2012-03-01 16:36:52 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:


If true, then the null bots did in fact get hit, without favoritism.


I had no idea people even thought that was a thing. Talk about pushing the ol' tinfoil envelope.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#175 - 2012-03-01 16:45:24 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:


If true, then the null bots did in fact get hit, without favoritism.


I had no idea people even thought that was a thing. Talk about pushing the ol' tinfoil envelope.


Oh yes. Sreegs, as you were once part of the goons they obviously thought you would show your loyalty to them. Other players have made similar comments, about how goon bots will get a free ride.

I guess they forgot to notice who signs your check, or consider that you actually take pride in doing a good job.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#176 - 2012-03-01 16:59:42 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:


If true, then the null bots did in fact get hit, without favoritism.


I had no idea people even thought that was a thing. Talk about pushing the ol' tinfoil envelope.



What ever helps them sleep at night.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Rene Winter
Urkrathos Corp
#177 - 2012-03-01 17:00:39 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:


If true, then the null bots did in fact get hit, without favoritism.


I had no idea people even thought that was a thing. Talk about pushing the ol' tinfoil envelope.


Seriously. I can't fathom why people would believe that a company who spent a lot of development hours on a bot detection system would subsequently spend more hours making sure it ignored 2/3 of the game it's supposed to work on.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#178 - 2012-03-01 17:07:15 UTC
Rene Winter wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:


If true, then the null bots did in fact get hit, without favoritism.


I had no idea people even thought that was a thing. Talk about pushing the ol' tinfoil envelope.


Seriously. I can't fathom why people would believe that a company who spent a lot of development hours on a bot detection system would subsequently spend more hours making sure it ignored 2/3 of the game it's supposed to work on.



Their hatred of goons is such that they simply ignore logic.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#179 - 2012-03-01 17:20:53 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:

Oh yes. Sreegs, as you were once part of the goons they obviously thought you would show your loyalty to them. Other players have made similar comments, about how goon bots will get a free ride.

I guess they forgot to notice who signs your check, or consider that you actually take pride in doing a good job.


Yes, I can confirm that goons are really upset about this and not finding it extremely hilarious and entirely deserved. I am crying now as I type this and blasting The Cure cranked up to 11. Why, Sreegs, why?
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#180 - 2012-03-01 17:23:39 UTC
Et tu Sreegs?

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012