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Cloaking should have a manual cycle or be cap intensive
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Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#61 - 2012-02-29 21:42:22 UTC
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:
I didn't think it was possible for you to make yourself, and your position, any more foolish or lol-worthy. In this case, KB stats have no bearing on the topic under discussion.


To be fair, his position that people should have to be present in order to be disruptive does make some sense. It's the idea that the problem lies in AFK cloaking that's laughable. Using local as a lazy means of intel is the problem.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#62 - 2012-02-29 21:42:24 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Torothin wrote:
AFK cloaking to disrupt activity is mega gaming. Too many people make assumptions. This isn't a thread to complain. But again if you are going to disrupt industry then you should disrupt industry while being present at your computer. This is right up there with botting.


So... hypothetically... if some other alliance decides to threaten your alliance with their massive epeen(s)... your alliance mobilizes over the "perceived" threat of this in an area it thinks it will be attacked... and then the aforementioned alliance does nothing. Weeks later, after your alliance has relaxed a bit, the other alliance attacks with their massive epeen(s), in a system you never thought they would attack, and utterly crush you.

Should this whole scenario be "nerfed" as well? Because it is "meta-gaming" by definition. Both sides are making assumptions about the other's assumptions and the whole thing disrupts activity for one side without the other side ever being near a computer.

How did you Veterans start?
Kirith Vespira
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-02-29 23:31:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirith Vespira
Torothin wrote:
Something needs to be done about this.



Sorry, I still don't see what the problem is. Are you getting ulcers worrying about a cloaked ship in your high sec belt? Are you at war, and concerned you're being watched? Are you concerned someone might sneak up on you while you're afk mining and steal 53 units of veld from your jetcan?

I don't get it, sorry.

ps: after wasting a few minutes to read other replies, it looks like this is nothing more than a Whine-Fest thread. My bad for feeding the whinage.
Jadzia Narys
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2012-02-29 23:44:00 UTC
Was going to comment, Then I saw people using their KB to prove how they are right. LOL

"im kind of a big deal"
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#65 - 2012-03-01 00:07:45 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Roime wrote:
I live in w-space and find instant local chat intel a failed mechanic.

Anyway I still think that introducing cloak fuel could be quite interesting, for both the cloaker and the targets. Just like submarines have to sufrace some day, so would the cloaker. Or then sneak out of the system while you still have fuel.

More gameplay, a new consumable item, wouldn't hurt the primary use of cloaks, but would prevent eternal cloaking.

Just to clarify: No manual cycles or cap usage, but a fuel bay that could hold fuel for what, say, 6-12 hours? Anyway plenty enough that you could cloak our ass out during a normal play session. If you would want to cloak for longer, have a hauler anchor a small can for you in a SS, or another cloakie bring fuel for you.


Remove instant local? Nonono... Not knowing who is in local is worse than knowing someone is neutral and in local. Living in a wormholes your used to it, but to avoid reds showing up and your system and popping you local is vital

You don't like having local, you living in W-Space
I like having local, I live in K-Space

Cloak fuel... I do like that idea. make it a consumable item you need to keep in your cargo hold or something, maybe an ice product so that it cant be monopolized like moon mining. Give cloaky ships a bonus to fuel usage or a special fuel bay, and make it impossible to cloak capitals.

End the cloaky ratting carriers

Bad Messenger wrote:
i approve that we could remove afk cloaking, but only if they remove poses too and other safe spots that makes possible to be invulnerable to attacks in 0.0.

Its called combat scanner probes, I reccomened you use them :)
Hard to stay safe in a safe spot if your being probed.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#66 - 2012-03-01 02:49:27 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Remove instant local? Nonono... Not knowing who is in local is worse than knowing someone is neutral and in local. Living in a wormholes your used to it, but to avoid reds showing up and your system and popping you local is vital


Suck it up buttercup. In low-sec and high-sec you are in local with a bunch of people... more than half of which you do not know and may or may not be spy alts from the "enemy." Hell... even if the guy is in YOUR militia he/she may be a spy and feed intel about your whereabouts. Yet many of us run level 5 missions, FW missions, rat in belts, run anomalies, move haulers to and fro...

... and yet you complain about one man... ONE... MAN... cloaked up... in a system you have more than 50 buddies flying around in at any given time... in a system where all your equipment is at... a system you can anchor as many warp bubbles as you want... and this ONE CLOAKED UP MAN prevents you from doing ANYTHING????

You are aware that this makes high-sec wannabe pirates miners sound more "hardcore" than you... right? They at least run the risk of getting suicide ganked whenever, wherever.

/lolrant

Okay... serious response...
... this is exactly WHY "afk cloaking" exists. As soon as a non-red appears in local, everyone in system "safes" up... and the only way to get around this "instant intel" is to devalue it with a single guy who is always "present."

Now if you give me a way to randomly take 10 guys in frigates into 0.0 and do actual damage to the people in it... only then might I consider a "rework" on cloaking to prevent afk-cloaking.

How did you Veterans start?
evil art
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-03-01 03:15:42 UTC
remove local then so i dont have to afk for 10 days.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#68 - 2012-03-01 03:21:48 UTC
Torothin wrote:
I'm sorry but seeing afk cloakers in every system whose job is to just scare miners is stupid. Even when we set these guys up and kill them we come back to find more afk cloakers who occasionally decloak to shoot some torps at cans people have mined. These guys go hours on end afk cloaking. Therefore I think it's best that cloaking either requires cap or requires you be active in order to cycle an activation timer.

Something needs to be done about this. The days of sitting non-chalantly afk cloaked for hours on end needs to stop. CCP at least make these people have to be active in order to maintain a cloak. Discuss!


No. There must be a risk to every reward - Including mining. Cloaks are fine as they are.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#69 - 2012-03-01 09:11:24 UTC
Torothin wrote:
I am not talking about pvp here. I'm talking about afk cloakers. I have no problem if the cloakers decide to engage. There is a difference. Again, this is a flawed mechanic and as of yet nobody has justified as to why a cycle cloak should not be introduced. If you are going to disrupt industry as pointed on then you must disrupt industry while being present at your computer.



They do engage. Just undock a Hulk or Noctis and they won't stay cloaky for too long.
You can't fix something that isn't broken.

Kinda getting sick of the 'I am Scared of people who are Afk threads'

It might be time for everyone to start hassling CCP for a cloak buff just to counter the people wanting a nerf.
I would run with - CCP plz make Covert ops cloaks work on HAC's.


Anyhow - there is already a counter to a cloaky who attacks - fit a warp stab or two. If they are afk - they wont attack so no threat at all. This leaves you very safe unless you are also an afker.

Problem solved - not even gonna charge you any isks.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Jovan Geldon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-03-01 09:46:54 UTC
3/10
Diablo Ex
Nocturne Holdings
#71 - 2012-03-01 13:22:55 UTC
If you have an AFK cloaker problem in your system, what you really have is an "Immigration" problem. The solution is guarding the gates and access points better. Believe me, I've lost numerous cloakies to gatecamps. That's their point of vulnerability.

1) Post a competent PvP gatecamp on the gates.
2) Move your vulnerable/tempting non-combatants out of system.

Now your AFK'er is in a prison cell, contained and neutralized.
If that's not good enough, it sounds like you need CONCORD to protect you, so HTFU or head back to Highsec and let someone who wants to be there have a chance.

Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"
Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
#72 - 2012-03-01 13:32:32 UTC
Torothin wrote:
I'm sorry but seeing afk cloakers in every system whose job is to just scare miners is stupid. Even when we set these guys up and kill them we come back to find more afk cloakers who occasionally decloak to shoot some torps at cans people have mined. These guys go hours on end afk cloaking. Therefore I think it's best that cloaking either requires cap or requires you be active in order to cycle an activation timer.

Something needs to be done about this. The days of sitting non-chalantly afk cloaked for hours on end needs to stop. CCP at least make these people have to be active in order to maintain a cloak. Discuss!


We need T4 hulk with permanent cloak - Problem solved (also Cloakqal would be nice).Roll
Hathrul
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-03-01 13:37:12 UTC
the afk cloaker has been fixed ages ago.

theres a little box called local, you can see who's active. if the big evol pilot is being cloaked afk, move to the next system or park some combat ships around your precious mining fleet

seriously, stop making an isue about this. learn to work with it. if youd spend half the time you spend whining about it on finding a solution you'd have made billions by now
Torothin
Crimson Dawn Enterprises
#74 - 2012-03-01 14:45:54 UTC
Dealing with it is not the issue. As stated above. Like many of you have said. It is an effective and legit way to disrupt the industry of an entity. But in order to do industry in 0.0 one must be active. Therefore if one is to disrupt industry in 0.0, one should also be active. That is my argument. It is mega gaming. Don't sit there and tell me this is not a valid argument..
Ikech
Godless Horizon.
OnlyFleets.
#75 - 2012-03-01 15:09:05 UTC
i got another idea that doesnt include breaking stealth bombers...mine in a different system? if they follow you...there not afk!

CEO of Lost.
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
#76 - 2012-03-01 18:09:18 UTC
Torothin wrote:
Dealing with it is not the issue. As stated above. Like many of you have said. It is an effective and legit way to disrupt the industry of an entity. But in order to do industry in 0.0 one must be active. Therefore if one is to disrupt industry in 0.0, one should also be active. That is my argument. It is mega gaming. Don't sit there and tell me this is not a valid argument..


You missed it. People are saying due to local providing you free intel, they have to afk in system in order strike when it is unexpected, the only way for them to throw you off, since you've been given free intel, is to make that free intel you recieved unreliable.

What you want, and are asking for is to make it less risky to run your industrial activity. If these people didn't show up in local when cloaked, what purpose would there be to sit afk cloaked? It would have no psychological affect on you, and wouldn't disrupt your gaming, the only disruption at that point would be when they attack. Which you wont go for that kind of change because you're too soft, if you can't deal with low sec/null then don't go.
Torijace
Corvix.
Greater Domain Cooperative
#77 - 2012-03-01 21:13:28 UTC
Gah..!! eve forums ate my post so here is the short version

System Communication Array: POS structure with long online time that enables local. Without this structure local channel would be set to passive just like WH space. Would make null sec fun to fly in again IMO and make afk cloaking almost pointless

Cloak Disruptor: not my idea but i like it 40k range 20 second cycle time non-auto repeat decloaks anything in range (including friendlies)

My two cents
Salcon Cliff
Zephyr Corp
#78 - 2012-03-01 21:35:18 UTC
Quote:
Remove instant local? Nonono... Not knowing who is in local is worse than knowing someone is neutral and in local. Living in a wormholes your used to it, but to avoid reds showing up and your system and popping you local is vital

If reds show up in your system and there is no local, not only do you not know they are there....they do not know YOU are there. Unless, ofc, they use d-scan and you are in range. Poor afk cloakers could be in a big, empty system and never know it :).

Honestly, I couldn't care less either way, but at least think partially through the logic.
Scoto Timta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-03-01 22:18:13 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
to avoid reds showing up and your system and popping you local is vital

I think what you meant to say was... "to avoid reds showing up in your system and popping you
1) watching the gates
2) using dscan
3) using combat probes
4) staying aligned
5) paying attention
is vital"

No? That wasn't what you meant to say? Oooohhhh, then you must have just left out a few words. I'll fix it for you....
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
to avoid reds showing up and your system and popping you WHILE YOU ARE BEING LAZYlocal is vital
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#80 - 2012-03-02 11:30:45 UTC
Torothin wrote:
What about the people who cloak up in griffin alts with cloaks in every system. Is that a legit guerilla warfare tactic? You are able to guerilla warfare with cloaks if you are active. So derp right back to you noob.


Absolutely. You might not like it, but frankly, cloaked toons are one of the best guerrilla warfare tools available in EVE.

A toon with enough skills to put a prototype cloak on a noob ship is sometimes enough to stop people from mining/ratting in a system while at the same time being eyes in that system for intel.

If you want to be more advanced about it, a cloaked recon with cyno-5 is a dangerous thing to have in your system and if you allow the enemy to know what ship you're in and/or hot-drop them once or twice it can often shut down isk grinding entirely.

It's brilliant and the mechanic is absolutely indispensable, especially when fighting a superior enemy.

T-