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New dev blog: What's in a name

First post First post
Author
Zendon Taredi
Tier Four Technologies
#261 - 2012-02-29 23:09:42 UTC
Well, the streak of good decisions is over. I hate this!
Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
#262 - 2012-02-29 23:11:27 UTC
Oh also, while we're at it, let's rename all the ships!

Minmatar Supercarrier
Gallente Covert-ops Frigate
Gallente Drone Battleship
Gallente Advanced Drone Cruiser
Caldari Mission Battleship
Caldari Advanced Mission Battleship
Amarr PVP Battleship Limited Issue


I mean, "Megathron" tells me absolutely nothing about what the ship does. it's so confusing!

...


...



(That was sarcasm btw) Bear

╦......║...╔╗.║.║.╔╗.╦║.╔╗╔╦╗╔╗

║.╔╗╔╗╔╣.╔╗╠..╠ ╠╗╠╝.║╠ ╠╝║║║╚╗

╩═╚╝║.╚╝.╚╝║..╚╝║║╚╝.╩╚╝╚╝║.║╚╝

Got Item?

Dumgard
State War Academy
Caldari State
#263 - 2012-02-29 23:17:01 UTC
Entity wrote:
Oh also, while we're at it, let's rename all the ships!

Minmatar Supercarrier
Gallente Covert-ops Frigate
Gallente Drone Battleship
Gallente Advanced Drone Cruiser
Caldari Mission Battleship
Caldari Advanced Mission Battleship
Amarr PVP Battleship Limited Issue


I mean, "Megathron" tells me absolutely nothing about what the ship does. it's so confusing!

...


...



(That was sarcasm btw) Bear

Gallente Frigates 1, 2, and 3 also.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#264 - 2012-02-29 23:17:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
I wish I could rename certain CCP devs and specially their superiors.
Sad part is that the forum software would probably censor most parts of them.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#265 - 2012-02-29 23:18:14 UTC
Please add "Elite" to the name of meta 5 modules/ammo.
Frank Madox
Solarwind Interstellar Mining and Production Ltd
#266 - 2012-02-29 23:19:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Frank Madox
One more thing I would like to throw out there is that (well from what I feel anyways) by over simplifying the names of all modules to the current Upgraded > limited > Experimental > Prototype, you might create a negative new player impression. In the sense that they lose 1. some of the immersion factor and 2. A loss in the ability (or at least the impression of) being able to customize their characters.

number 1 is pretty straight forward so i'll go on to my second point. At EVE's current status our ships are pretty much what makes us, us. Yes, we have the avatars and the CQs but what we spend a majority of our time in is our ships and as with many MMOs out there, players would want to be something that distinguishes them from the rest.

In the case of EVE, making oneself feel "special" is a bit tricky. We are, in some sense, defined by what we fly. The current naming system, tricky and confusing as it may be to new players, at least gives us the impression that we are creating something special when we add on that "N-Type something or other" or that "PWNAGE" painter. By naming everything (guns/prop mods/hardners etc.) with generic conventions we effectively remove this feeling.

If I was a newer player and my ship basically was fitted with everything that had names beginning with "Prototype" and nothing else, I would personally feel rather underwhelmed. I would feel rather generic.

anyways, TLDR. We need the fluff, because the fluff makes stuff sound cool. derp!
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#267 - 2012-02-29 23:19:56 UTC
How about fixing the log instead - for example.

You could actually add some tabs to it for different damage types, drones and so on...

Too much work? Thought so.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#268 - 2012-02-29 23:25:26 UTC
Some of you guys talking about how changing module names into some coherent naming convention is 'dumbing down' are terrible people and should be embarrassed of yourselves. Having said that, I'm not much of a fan of the rather bland proposals that have been put forward either. How about providing an at-a-glance meta indication whilst keeping something of the original name? Tech levels are indicated by a I or II at the end of the name, meta levels could easily be represented by an a,b,c,d,e suffix in the same way. Tidy up some of the more awkward names, and we're in business.

Also, yes, the 'array' thing is kind of irritating. If some renaming is needed how about :

'Standard Missile Launcher'
'Heavy Missile Launchers'
'Dual Standard Missile Launcher' (formally Assault Missile Launchers)
'Standard Rocket Launchers' (formally Rocket Launchers)
'Heavy Rocket Launchers' (formally Heavy Assault Missile Launchers)

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

JamesCLK
#269 - 2012-02-29 23:29:23 UTC
Welp, I feel a bit bad for quoting myself on a similar topic for the third time; but seeing as CCP is actually reading the thread, I figure I should probably also paste my suggestion in the official blogthread.

JamesCLK wrote:
This is why we need search tags.

That way modules can be named whatever [the frack] CCP wants and we'll still find all launchers when we search for 'launcher'.


To clarify, tags would be an array of words (strings/chars) that is separate from the name and which are defined by relevancy.
Eg. the tag 'Propulsion' would be anything under the propulsion module tree; hardener is all shield and armor hardeners; explosive is anything that either deals or protects from explosive, etc...

By searching for multiple tags, you can narrow down the search.
Eg:
'armour hardener explosive meta3' would return just the meta 3 explosive armour hardener.
'armour hardener meta3' would return all meta 3 armour hardeners.
The order of the tags and capitilization in the search wouldn't matter.
Also allows you to define search queries based on terms such as meta, tech, gun size (eg. Large/Medium/Small) or weapon type (hybrid, projectile, laser, launcher).


Thoughts?

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.

Kadesh Priestess
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#270 - 2012-02-29 23:30:11 UTC
What about reverting all the name changes and adding label system ("armor", "explosive", "hardener")? Labels could be shown in popup when you hover cursor over item (so that nobody gets confused wtf does this item do), they could be used for search along with plain-text type name match. Like, if you search for "meta5 exlosive hardener", all tech 2 armor/shield explosive hardeners will be shown, along with plain-text matches.

This way items can be named anyhow, keeping immersion of old names and usability of new ones.
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#271 - 2012-02-29 23:30:20 UTC
Because Light Missile Arrays and Light Missile Launchers aren't going to get confused..

CCP, just quit while you're ahead, also, give me back my Scourge Fury Heavy Missiles, scourge sounds much cooler.

oh btw u should probably rename EMP ammo to "Republic Fleet Slightly EM Slightly Explosive Damage S/M/L"

-Buhhd
Random Womble
Emo Rangers
#272 - 2012-02-29 23:31:00 UTC
Frank Madox wrote:

In the case of EVE, making oneself feel "special" is a bit tricky. We are, in some sense, defined by what we fly. The current naming system, tricky and confusing as it may be to new players, gives us the impression that we are creating something special when we add on that "N-Type something or other" or that "PWNAGE" painter. By naming everything (guns/prop mods/hardners etc.) with generic conventions we effectively remove this feeling. If I was a newer player and my ship basically was fitted with everything that had names beginning with "Prototype" and nothing else, I would personally feel rather underwhelmed. I would feel rather rather generic.


I had forgotten about the named target painters. Now that is a classic case of unconventional names adding winsauce to the meat of the game and the Dev that named them originally should have been Knighted for services to awesomeness.

There is also a bit of a theme to the meta level in terms of word length>alphabetical + general all round cool level.

PWN>PWND>PWNT>PWNAGE
albert camus
Mateber Mining and Manufacturing Company
C U L T
#273 - 2012-02-29 23:31:19 UTC
FIRE THIS GUY NOW!!!!
JamesCLK
#274 - 2012-02-29 23:34:35 UTC  |  Edited by: JamesCLK
I too fear for my Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron... Cry

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.

Cid Kincaid
Dark Tech Inc
Sol Survivors
#275 - 2012-02-29 23:34:37 UTC
Please stop taking away the immersion of our simulated universe by standardizing the naming system. There are many ways that you can clarify the quality of the modules without raping their traditional names. How about a mouse over tooltip or an inventory column that sorts by meta level instead?
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#276 - 2012-02-29 23:34:48 UTC
You know instead of renaming crap. why not do the old suggestion of putting a number on the picture.


BUT!!!! instead of using the triangle use a square or something.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

Dumgard
State War Academy
Caldari State
#277 - 2012-02-29 23:37:43 UTC
JamesCLK wrote:
Welp, I feel a bit bad for quoting myself on a similar topic for the third time; but seeing as CCP is actually reading the thread, I figure I should probably also paste my suggestion in the official blogthread.

JamesCLK wrote:
This is why we need search tags.

That way modules can be named whatever [the frack] CCP wants and we'll still find all launchers when we search for 'launcher'.


To clarify, tags would be an array of words (strings/chars) that is separate from the name and which are defined by relevancy.
Eg. the tag 'Propulsion' would be anything under the propulsion module tree; hardener is all shield and armor hardeners; explosive is anything that either deals or protects from explosive, etc...

By searching for multiple tags, you can narrow down the search.
Eg:
'armour hardener explosive meta3' would return just the meta 3 explosive armour hardener.
'armour hardener meta3' would return all meta 3 armour hardeners.
The order of the tags and capitilization in the search wouldn't matter.
Also allows you to define search queries based on terms such as meta, tech, gun size (eg. Large/Medium/Small) or weapon type (hybrid, projectile, laser, launcher).


Thoughts?

someone hire this guy
Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#278 - 2012-02-29 23:37:46 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Some of you guys talking about how changing module names into some coherent naming convention is 'dumbing down' are terrible people and should be embarrassed of yourselves. Having said that, I'm not much of a fan of the rather bland proposals that have been put forward either. How about providing an at-a-glance meta indication whilst keeping something of the original name? Tech levels are indicated by a I or II at the end of the name, meta levels could easily be represented by an a,b,c,d,e suffix in the same way. Tidy up some of the more awkward names, and we're in business.


The purpose of the naming change is to allow players to tell at a glance the meta level of an item. I have no problem with that goal. There are a lot of ways of achieving it. The proposed implant naming change is a good example of how names can both retain flavor and convey useful information. I absolutely do not understand why CCP couldn't come up with a similar system for meta modules. I'd be happy with alpha suffixes denoting meta levels, or even the whole 'Prototype' nonsense being incorporated into existing names. So would most other folk. But simply changing all item names to the same four reeks of lazy thinking. At this point we might as well rename all Tachyon beams to "Big Beam Laser" or something.
JamesCLK
#279 - 2012-02-29 23:39:55 UTC  |  Edited by: JamesCLK
Dumgard wrote:
someone hire this guy


Won't be looking for work for another 4 years unfortunately; studying game development and whatnot.
Maybe after I pass my BaHons Lol

Or possibly an internship in a few years, dunno... I get the feeling I'll need to buy some (read: a lot of) beer for the devs at a future fanfest first Pirate

I'm not exactly opposed to name changes in the system tbth, these just aren't that great - I suspect some CCPers already know this somehow Blink

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.

klar valimar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#280 - 2012-02-29 23:45:49 UTC
Not a big supporter of these changes. I liked the different names. Provided originality and creativity. Now searching for an item in market will be a nightmare.

Also feel sorry for any players that try to come back to the game after a break. The heavy assault missile launcher is now the assault missile launcher - huh.

Again removing the complexity from the game. Soon I will get be able to hit the easy button and win the game.

The only area I ever found confusing was implants.

oh well at least I will not have think when I play the game.

EASY BUTTON FTW