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Solo ship hunting, Pilgrim/Curse?

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Hawklandier Taranogas
Old American Syndicate
Optimistic Wasteland
#1 - 2012-02-28 22:54:26 UTC
As wars are becoming ever more popular and our main fleets are engaged fighting in far off regions of null sec, i find my self at the ever present section of being stuck in the middle of the two Ugh

Because of this, i desperately need some kills to make myself look sort of respectable among my fellow pilots. I have done alot of research and it seems that the abilities of the Curse/Pilgrim make them ideal solo PvP ship. I have the funds, my drone, armor and energy skills are good but im just wondering if solo ship hunting is the way to go, and if so, are there any fits and advice i can get for these ships?

I have not yet trained Amarr cruiser V yet as i want to get some feedback on the advantages and disadvantages first. Tactics, advice, ship fittings etc are all warmly welcomed as it would be nice to get some 'outside' advice that i can cross-reference with what i already know and advice that iv already been given :P

Please help a poor 'kill wise' stranded pilot. xD

I have likes? How the hell did that happen? :D
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#2 - 2012-02-28 23:07:55 UTC
You're looking for a ship which will make up for a simple lack of player skill - sadly such a ship doesn't exist. What I'd do in your shoes is buy a bunch of Crows and Manticores (judging from your KB) and get some solid PVP fittings for them. You can also buy T1 frigs (Rifter, Incursus, Tristan, Merlin, Kestrel) if cost for a "bunch" of T2 ships is an issue. Also, if you have T2 small pulse... the Slicer is pro.

Watch your favorite PVPers PVP videos to figure out how they're flying their ships. For instance: Kil2 puts out a series "Bringing back Solo" that you should look into - he goes into some effort to explain what he's doing and why. Then buy and download Fraps and make test it out to make sure you can fraps yourself in a firefight. Afterall - if a picture says a thousand words, how much more can you learn from watching you make your mistakes in slow motion?

Then go PVP your heart out without worrying too much about whether the ship you're in is the exact best ship in the game.

Good luck!

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#3 - 2012-02-28 23:17:54 UTC
Also, it may be a good idea to use an out of alliance alt to learn to PVP... just so that your mates don't see all of your miserable failures. On the flip side, this post is pretty accurate: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=869589#post869589 ;-)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#4 - 2012-02-29 00:46:53 UTC
Neither ships are very good imo. Dont get me wrong, they are great ships with bonuses and slot layouts that work, but the thing is that targets for both ships are usually solo ratters (for Pilgrim) and noobs that failed to use d scan and run before curse got them tackled. Both cases you could have soloed them in a cheaper ship. IMO you'd learn a lot more by flying T1 hulls where you can actually get close fights. Curse is too much the case of either automatic win or getting no action at all.
Andrea Griffin
#5 - 2012-02-29 02:16:09 UTC
Liang is correct in that there's no such thing as a ship to make up for poor PvP skill. If you're inexperienced then you're inexperienced.

That said, I actually like the Pilgrim despite its faults (rather slow, low DPS). Covert Ops cloak lets you pick your fights and flip past camps, bonus tracking disruptor is awesome, and the bonused neuts will ruin anyone's day.

But the DPS is bad. A full flight of Hammerhead drones with full skills will only do 238 DPS.

You only have 4 high slots. You want a covert ops cloak and at least 2 neuts; that leaves one high slot for something else, which is likely a probe so that you can scan down targets. Sure, you could add a gun, but the DPS for one unbonused gun is underwhelming.

Consequently, if your target is buffer tanked it's going to take ******* forever to get a kill. That's a serious liability; Since most PvP targets are buffer tanked that means you're stuck chasing unsuspecting PvE targts, or taking your chances while you spend 10 minutes grinding through a Hurricane's shield or plate. And while you take forever to kill your target, your target is screaming into his comms for his friends to save his butt.

The Curse is far better in a real combat role, but nobody wants to fight a Curse.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Hawklandier Taranogas
Old American Syndicate
Optimistic Wasteland
#6 - 2012-02-29 09:29:53 UTC
Thanks for all the great feedback so far :)

And yeah, experience just comes with time really. D: it was the covert ability that i was looking into originally so i could (As you said) try and pick fights that i could win with minimal losses. But for now i guess il just suit up a hawk, harpy or a rifter and just go looking really. I mean we all have to start somewhere :P

I have likes? How the hell did that happen? :D
Andrea Griffin
#7 - 2012-02-29 14:35:47 UTC
Hawklandier Taranogas wrote:
But for now i guess il just suit up a hawk, harpy or a rifter and just go looking really. I mean we all have to start somewhere :P
Best place to start is anything cheap, and rifters are cheap AND effective. You're going to make a lot of bad mistakes when you first start PvP (everyone does, it's normal, it's okay, just learn from them and try again), so you might as well make the worst of those mistakes in cheap ships.

Move up to expensive / fancy stuff when you have some more experience. You'll have a better idea of what you're doing and won't run as great a risk losing something expensive. You might also want to spend some time on the test server with expensive stuff before you take it out for real - or ask people in your corporation to fight you down to hull or something for experience.

You may also want to contact some of the more well-known pirate corps in lowsec; many of them honor 1v1 requests and will give you a TON of helpful hints after every fight.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Cryissa
Caldari Navy Operations
#8 - 2012-02-29 16:27:50 UTC
Sound advice so far all round. Very nice :)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#9 - 2012-02-29 16:57:38 UTC
I'm surprised nobody mentioned it, but the Merlin is at least as badass as the Rifter. With a MSE/Invuln tank it can go over 10k EHP, while still being reasonably fast using an AB, and doing a decent amount of damage with a blaster/rocket combination. Yeah, it's skill intensive, but I would 1v1 a Rifter in it anyday.

Take this fit and work by toning it down to fit your skills:

Quote:
[Merlin, Tank WTF]

Light Ion Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Rocket

1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Medium Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I


Other than that, if you have good missile skills, you could also look into using the Kestrel. It does amazing damage for a frigate, especially considering that tracking is not an issue for it. If you like being primary you could try the Griffin. Or you could go with the Rifter.

With regards specifically to the OP, I definitely do not recommend flying Pilgrim/Curse if you are inexperienced. They are expensive ships and the process of learning is littered with lossmails. Not that they aren't badass ships solo -- they are awesome -- but without experience using them or even much PvP experience under your belt, you're most likely to just die in a fire.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Skelee VI
Swamp Panthers
Bog Brotherhood
#10 - 2012-02-29 17:05:06 UTC
Your best bet is to use neither! As suggested above start with frigs- merlin, rifter, punisher. Af's good too, if you are amarr a veng. Other options: Destroyers- thrasher good, Cruiser-Thorax. What you need is the experience to pick your targets and know if you can take them out. I would mess on the test server first to get to know your ships capablilites, in terms of range, speed, ammo types etc. Then go for it in null. Solo fights are far and few but they are out there. Best of luck.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-02-29 18:21:20 UTC
Solo is harder nowadays. You could try this and Good luck.

[Rifter, Balanced]
Damage Control II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small Armor Repairer II
Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
Warp Scrambler II
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I
200mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S
Rocket Launcher II,Gremlin Rage Rocket
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I

Overheat everything!

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
#12 - 2012-02-29 18:48:42 UTC
As someone who flys Pilgrims and Curses in PvP, as well as Frigs, Ceptors, etc I agree with all of the above. First off both are highly skill intensive, in both SP and flying. Knowing your targets, knowing d-scan, knowing how to probe, and when not to fight matter. Frigates teach those lessons at 1/100th the cost and they are always fun to fly.

Once you have an idea of the basics, try out an Arbitrator and see if you like it. It does not have the Neuting capability of the Recons, but it has the TD ability and the Drones. No small fleet I know of says know to an Arby. It is also fully capable of taking on all the frigs in the game.

Once you have done all that, maxed out your Neuting, Engineer, Electronics, Targeting, EWAR, Covert Ops, Recon 4 (5 for Pilgrim), T2 Medium Drones, EWAR drones, and can afford to lose 150Mil+ Isk at a time, buy yourself a Pilgrom or a Curse.
Torothin
Crimson Dawn Enterprises
#13 - 2012-02-29 19:20:34 UTC
You do have one other option that nobody has mentioned. Back in the day Slacker Industries implemented a design in order to effectively Guerilla Warfare with Pilgrim in deep 0.0 solo. We effectively went into deep 0.0 in a buffer tanked Pilgrim fitted with 2 warp core stabs and replaced the TD II with a SB II with scan res. The results were great and we had the ability to effectively engage whatever we wanted and had the ability to GTFO.

We used to kill hulks while 2 guys were hammering on us and then simply warp off. Now I am probably going to take a lot of heat from this post. There will be people they will tell you that the setup is too gimped and your lock time is crap. But if you truly want to succesfully Guerilla warfare in enemy territory look into this setup. You are able to fit a buffer, med inj, mwd, 2 med neut II's, as well as a probe with the right skills. Again, you will take a lot of heat if this setup shows up on the killboards and people will call you lame for fitting stabs.

But it does work and will frustrate your opponents greatly. It's just another optionon. But that aside both ships lack the dps to kill anything before help arrives. Vaga/Cyn/100mn tengu are much better choices.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#14 - 2012-02-29 19:37:09 UTC
Seems risky considering how many people run scrams these days. Was that before or after the Scram/MWD change?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Torothin
Crimson Dawn Enterprises
#15 - 2012-02-29 19:44:28 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Seems risky considering how many people run scrams these days. Was that before or after the Scram/MWD change?

-Liang



it was but then again how many npcers are fitting scrams or points?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#16 - 2012-02-29 19:46:42 UTC
I was more commenting on the idea that the WCS would be worth as much as it used to be. 2 WCS back when everyone ran long points was a good idea.... the same effect now would need 3-4 WCS.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
#17 - 2012-02-29 19:50:06 UTC
Torothin wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Seems risky considering how many people run scrams these days. Was that before or after the Scram/MWD change?

-Liang



it was but then again how many npcers are fitting scrams or points?


The ones that are combat fit and responding to one of their mates getting attack... MWD Curse is par for the course, you might catch them off guard with an MWD on a Pilgrim, but the Pilgrim is still slow.
Torothin
Crimson Dawn Enterprises
#18 - 2012-02-29 19:59:10 UTC
Yes but even with a Curse damage comes into play here. You're not going to be able to kill anything decent in either ship before help arrives. The stabbed Pilgrim at least gives you the GTFO option. Aside from the scram argument which is very valid. There have been times you comes accross a Mega and thing geez that looks like ajuicy target. Then you engaged and next thing you know you are scrammed and getting owned by what you thought was an NPC mega fit.

The wc option is a valid option for Guerilla Warfare but you need to be good with the d-scan and take notice to what is on it's way to you. You engage a Cane in a anom. You are right ontop of him and next thing you know he scrams you. you're eating away at him but for some reason his cap is not dying and you see help on the way with d-scan. What happens if he is PvP fit and you can't shut down his cap in time or he is running a nosf to keep his scram going? That's a dead Pilgrim right there.

Now I have only really flown the WC fit solo. Otherwise I have a standard dual prop heavy Buff pilgrim fit that I fly with a Falcon. So each of the 2 ships on discussion have it's benefits and concerns on a solo bases.

Pilgrim:
- Easier to get around with/ more safe for true solo hunting

- Can pick your targets more easily

- lack the range so you have to be up close and personal.

- Heavy armor buff tank.

Curse:
- Harder to move around with for true solo roaming due to a lack of cloaking make life more diffcult when comign across camps.

- Has the range for kiting and can add missiles for more overal DPS.

- Easier to get the way when GTFO moments hit.


So it depends on what you like to do and what your play style is. If you prefer to be a cloaky stalker that selects targets and can roam around with relative ease due to cloak go with the Pilgrim and decide how you want to fit it. if you want a more versatile ship that has more suriviability but a harder time getting around when traveling then go with the Curse. it comes down to preference.