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New dev blog: The Eve Online Launcher: T-minus not that much

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Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#81 - 2012-02-29 15:40:49 UTC
CCP Cascade wrote:


With the risk of getting shouted at: What is the benefit of having multiple client installs over just launching 3-4 instances of the same eve.exe from the same install? Is it to have seperate folders for your settings/cache and that the client opens in the right monitor? Do you get anything else? If any of you awesome multiboxers would be able to detail the benefits, perhaps we can come up with a solution that gives you all that you want, but without having to install a 10GB game multiple times.



a seprate client holds settings for only that client, monitor/display adaptor number (1-6 personally. ati cards get incarna hot if you puts 6 clients on to the wrong monitors ), account name, window size settings, graphical settings e.g. pvp clients min settings.
you dont have to install the game more than once, you just copy the first install into other folders. if one install gets corrupted, no need for repair exe, just copy a working one into that folder, job done.

i even rename the links on my desktop to the name of the toons on that account, i find it anoying as hell to find a toon with so many accounts

OMG when can i get a pic here
Jackson Firn
Doomheim
#82 - 2012-02-29 15:46:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jackson Firn
CCP Cascade wrote:
Thanks for not shouting at me and being constructive!

That makes a lot of sense, now to figure out how to give you this functionality without actually having to duplicate all this redundant data. Hmmmm.

If anyone has any ideas or suggestion, post away!


One way would be to allow the use of profiling, something like a tick box on the launcher page with settings that can be given meaningful names by players as to which settings to load on game lauch?
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#83 - 2012-02-29 15:54:08 UTC
Client graphics setting need to be saveable to the esc menu nameable and selectable. Whats the progress on the gracefully degrading graphic settings. Twisted

More and better default overview settings would be great to.

Begining with all five filled with the main defalt settings at original game loggin for new players would be a great start.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2012-02-29 15:59:25 UTC
dont know if you read my edit, but you should do :P

Gilbaron wrote:
it would be awsome if we could save client settings completely independent from the game files and if we could launch our "no shinys left monitor client" directly from the launcher with the first click and our "full shiny right monitor client" with a second one
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#85 - 2012-02-29 16:03:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
CCP Cascade wrote:
Thanks for not shouting at me and being constructive!

That makes a lot of sense, now to figure out how to give you this functionality without actually having to duplicate all this redundant data. Hmmmm.

If anyone has any ideas or suggestion, post away!



Fine, I'll step in and make sure you don't feel left out...

You're a mean one, CCP Cascade, you really are a heel. You're as cuddly as a cactus, as charming as an eel... you're a black banana with a greasy black peel!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzXKWKaxt3c

Pirate


Can't wait to see this on release.

I think you should have these features supported :

  • Launch multiple clients from the launcher (from one install at least)
  • Backup User Settings (so you can backup in case of a corrupted settings file, or reinstallation, etc)
  • Links to important New Player Experience - Evelopedia, New Player Forums and other important stuff for newbies (so many never get important information such as this and us Vets tend to have to direct them there).

Where I am.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-02-29 16:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarnis McPieksu
CCP Cascade wrote:
What is the benefit of having multiple client installs over just launching 3-4 instances of the same eve.exe from the same install? Is it to have seperate folders for your settings/cache and that the client opens in the right monitor? Do you get anything else? If any of you awesome multiboxers would be able to detail the benefits, perhaps we can come up with a solution that gives you all that you want, but without having to install a 10GB game multiple times.


If you do something about this, you will make everyone, except perhaps the manufacturers of hard disks, happy.

People have multiple installations to have multiple separate clients with separate settings and caches, and to ensure that if one client goes down, it doesn't crap out others (AFAIK in some scenarios if you have a client crash, all clients using the same installation can go down with it).

Perhaps you should have a launcher where you can select from multiple instances of settings/caches (one per account, each having the account name) before firing off the client. Or even before firing off multiple clients in sequence, each with separate settings and caches (asking for password for each one before the sequence starts). Without the need to duplicate the "read only" files of the client.

Simply take the use case; "I have one PC, two or three monitors, three accounts and I'm starting up EVE - I want each client to start up with specific graphics settings, window positions and unique caches and I want to do it as easily and smoothly as possible. Preferably I would have to enter three passwords to three boxes and then get three clients up with the character select screen waiting for me to pick character, clients appearing as configured". Obviously also make so that you can substitute "three" with N where N is at least up to 9.

Go. Make it so.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2012-02-29 16:52:50 UTC
I totally support this product/service if it reduces the amount of client restarts and will patch all the clients on one go.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Jenell Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#88 - 2012-02-29 16:53:46 UTC
I am using a proxy connection sometimes, to get the launcher to work I would need info which ports the launcher will need to connect and download updates.
CCP Cascade
#89 - 2012-02-29 16:56:16 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Cascade
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:

If you do something about this, you will make everyone, except perhaps the manufacturers of hard disks, happy.
[...]
Go. Make it so.


No promises, but we rather resolve the underlying issue than bloating the launcher with functionality which effectively are workarounds.

But thanks for the great feedback on multiboxing. We'll have a think about this together with some other smart people and see what our options are. I'm afraid I can't promise anything, but you atleast know what our intentions are for now!

What I really would like to see, is you all going on Singularity, taking the Launcher for a spin and getting really constructive when it comes to the functionality, issues you you run into and the look and feel of it. And also what you want the future features to be.

Have a look at the test server forum feedback thread here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73229&find=unread

Associate Technical Producer - Core Technology Group
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#90 - 2012-02-29 17:07:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
CCP Atropos wrote:

Vincent Athena wrote:


Question: Any plans on making the launcher capable of launching multiple instances of the client, so I can run all 3 accounts without having to have 3 separate clients? But before that, on Macs, will the client clone maker thing still be the way to make multiple clients?


As a non Mac user, I don't know what the "client clone maker thing" is. Could you elaborate for me please? We're keen to make the experience as smooth as possible so I'm interested in hearing your suggestions Smile

EDIT: nevermind, found it Cool[/quote]

Right now when a new client version comes out (that is one with a new 1.x.x version number) the procedure is to delete all the clones, run the main client, let it update, then use "Eve clonemaker" to make the clones. The clones are much smaller than a full install, and much faster to make. When a small patch comes out the main client is updated when you run it, and each clone updates when you run it.


So: Will "Eve clonemaker" still work? Will it be a viable way to get multiple clients?
Will the launcher work properly when cloned?
Will the clones update properly?
Will it be obvious to us users when we got to delete and re-create the clones for a major update, now that updating is sort of hidden in the launcher?

Edit: Right now if I run "Eve clonemaker" on my sisi install I get "cp: /Applications/EVE Onlinesisi.app//Contents/MacOS/cider: No such file or directory"

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#91 - 2012-02-29 18:04:35 UTC
CCP Cascade wrote:


What I really would like to see, is you all going on Singularity, taking the Launcher for a spin and getting really constructive when it comes to the functionality, issues you you run into and the look and feel of it. And also what you want the future features to be.

Have a look at the test server forum feedback thread here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73229&find=unread




dosnt matter if i try it out or not tbh. if it CAN NOT support muliti client installs, its a waste of my time and will infact waste more of it from the moment you make me use it

OMG when can i get a pic here
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#92 - 2012-02-29 18:38:04 UTC
Jenell Sevidon wrote:
I am using a proxy connection sometimes, to get the launcher to work I would need info which ports the launcher will need to connect and download updates.

Ports 80 and 81.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-02-29 21:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
CCP Cascade wrote:
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:

If you do something about this, you will make everyone, except perhaps the manufacturers of hard disks, happy.
[...]
Go. Make it so.


No promises, but we rather resolve the underlying issue than bloating the launcher with functionality which effectively are workarounds.

But thanks for the great feedback on multiboxing. We'll have a think about this together with some other smart people and see what our options are. I'm afraid I can't promise anything, but you atleast know what our intentions are for now!


I really only use multiple installs for several persistent sets of options. I have two monitors and three accounts, and I frequently use all three at once. Usually I have my main account on my main monitor, and I cycle through alts on the second screen. As I am looking at the main 80% of time, I want shiney graphics. But the alts I only glance at once in a while, I want them optimized for performance. Plus obviously I want each client to run on its intended screen and in its intended resolution (each monitor has a different native resolution, which is a pain sometimes).

I have two installs and a shortcut to each on my desktop. One install is configured to launch on my main screen at full details, and the other on the second screen with medium details. To begin a session I usually double-click the main icon once and the alt icon twice to get all three clients up.

Additionally, the individual character settings are not shared between the installs. So if I for some reason need to run an alt on my main screen, or my main on the second screen, the client doesn't remember my chat channels, window positions, hotkeys, etc.

What I propose is three steps:

1) Convert the settings from a proprietary format to something simple, like an .ini file that anyone can edit to their liking.

2) Allow the client to be launched with an option to use a specified settings file. This will allow the user to create several shortcuts to the same EVE installation, each using a different settings file. However the account and character settings will still be shared between clients.

3) Allow command line options to configure global settings - i.e. screen to run on, resolution, etc. Therefore to get the most basic functionality - each shortcut opens a client on a different screen - one wouldn't have to derp with the config files at all.
Flamewave
Crimson Moon Society
#94 - 2012-02-29 21:45:47 UTC
Quote:
You can chose to only show the Launcher if there is an update to the game.

This is good, because launchers REALLY annoy me.


(Also that line in the devblog misspells "choose.")

Some things ISK can't buy. For everything else, there's Jita.

YouTube
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2012-03-01 06:06:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
CCP Atropos wrote:
CCP Atropos wrote:
For those asking about multiple clients using junction points, I'm following the article on the wiki, and I'll let you know exactly how junctions fare (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Multiple_clients#Method_1_-_Junctions)

Works fine with Junctions. Since there's only one "real" client under the junction, that's the one that gets updated when you run the Launcher from any of the end points (ie: original install location, or one of it's junctions).

Of course, if you're running a client from one of the end points, and you're updating it, you'll probably mess it up, since you're modifying it whilst it's running, but since you qualify as an advanced user if you're using junctions, you're probably aware of that already.
If I am understanding this correctly, I have probably run and updated the client from an "end point" with no noticeable issues at all.

Also, I have observed two different types of "updates" with EVE.

1) Where the client closes, the updater initiates the Windows 7 admin auth query to update important files, runs the updater, etc. This type of update / patch occurs once.

2) Where the client updates and then shuts down / restarts. This takes place for *each* "end point" with my junctions-based installation. In my case, 3 junctions == 3 update sessions.

Lastly, in my particular 'circles' w/in EVE it is the exception that a person subscribes with one account. Instead, it is the norm for people to subscribe and run 2 - 5 (or more) accounts at a time.

By default, CCP project managers should account for this stuff. Time to learn a bit more about your customers, it seems.

Edit: if this launcher proves to be a barrier to multi-boxing, expect some serious noise (and lost business) from your customers.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
CCP Gangleri
C C P
C C P Alliance
#96 - 2012-03-01 09:07:16 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Gangleri
Vincent Athena wrote:

CCP Atropos wrote:


Question: Any plans on making the launcher capable of launching multiple instances of the client, so I can run all 3 accounts without having to have 3 separate clients? But before that, on Macs, will the client clone maker thing still be the way to make multiple clients?

As a non Mac user, I don't know what the "client clone maker thing" is. Could you elaborate for me please? We're keen to make the experience as smooth as possible so I'm interested in hearing your suggestions Smile

EDIT: nevermind, found it Cool


Right now when a new client version comes out (that is one with a new 1.x.x version number) the procedure is to delete all the clones, run the main client, let it update, then use "Eve clonemaker" to make the clones. The clones are much smaller than a full install, and much faster to make. When a small patch comes out the main client is updated when you run it, and each clone updates when you run it.


So: Will "Eve clonemaker" still work? Will it be a viable way to get multiple clients?
Will the launcher work properly when cloned?
Will the clones update properly?
Will it be obvious to us users when we got to delete and re-create the clones for a major update, now that updating is sort of hidden in the launcher?

Edit: Right now if I run "Eve clonemaker" on my sisi install I get "cp: /Applications/EVE Onlinesisi.app//Contents/MacOS/cider: No such file or directory"


I dumped a Mac Pro on Topknots desk yesterday afternoon so he can play with the clone maker / launcher combo Big smile

Clonemaker just needs a very simple edit to reference new files since the package is starting the launcher instead of the client itself, I've already fixed it on my machine and am just waiting for TransGaming to review my changes. I'm expecting more trouble from communicating the fact that the clonemaker has been updated than it not working properly.

If you have any further questions please don't hesitate to ask.

edit: quotes ALL the things!
edit2: New version of clone maker, I will update the wiki page to use this link when we deploy the launcher.
edit3: I spoke too soon, my previous changes to the clone maker were based on a misunderstanding. I went to CCP Mandrake for help who calmly explained a few things to me and then I re-did my changes. Revision 4 of EVE Clone Maker.

Check out my EVE Gate broadcast log for semi-regular updates on various EVE development: https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Gangleri/StatusUpdates
Chaotic Mind
Wet Corpses
#97 - 2012-03-01 10:09:39 UTC
got me there for a second. Thought there were news about missile Launchers...... my bad ;)
Palovana
Inner Fire Inc.
#98 - 2012-03-01 16:36:20 UTC
CCP Cascade wrote:
Quote:
Having the ability to detect if a patch exists and ask for confirmation before auto-downloading and applying would
be nice.

Sometimes you just want to login quick and throw another skill in the queue before leaving for work and not have to sit
through a giant download.



I'm afraid that this isn't really an option, as we require everyone to have the same client version when they connect. But
there might be better ways to get what you want, one of those far into the future ideas would be pre-caching future patches. We would then offer you to download most (perhaps 90%) of the new data a patch contains 2-3 days before it is released and then on patch day you only need to download that last 10%. Again, this is too far into the future to say that this will happen, but it is just one example of many that the new Launcher allows us to do that the old patching system wouldn't.


Thanks for the feedback.

I meant that more along the lines of "OK, huge download required, just quit now instead of download, I'll do it later" rather than "skip download and try to connect with old client version now".

Please support: export of settings in editable format

Your stuff goes here.
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#99 - 2012-03-01 17:16:25 UTC
Palovana wrote:
CCP Cascade wrote:
Quote:
Having the ability to detect if a patch exists and ask for confirmation before auto-downloading and applying would
be nice.

Sometimes you just want to login quick and throw another skill in the queue before leaving for work and not have to sit
through a giant download.



I'm afraid that this isn't really an option, as we require everyone to have the same client version when they connect. But
there might be better ways to get what you want, one of those far into the future ideas would be pre-caching future patches. We would then offer you to download most (perhaps 90%) of the new data a patch contains 2-3 days before it is released and then on patch day you only need to download that last 10%. Again, this is too far into the future to say that this will happen, but it is just one example of many that the new Launcher allows us to do that the old patching system wouldn't.


Thanks for the feedback.

I meant that more along the lines of "OK, huge download required, just quit now instead of download, I'll do it later" rather than "skip download and try to connect with old client version now".

You can simply close the launcher if that's the case; it will continue where it left off when you next start it.
Blue Harrier
#100 - 2012-03-01 17:48:23 UTC
Just for your info I have tested the launcher with Windows 8 Consumer preview and it seems to work fine.

I've tried both clients and TQ and SiSi work as expected exactly the same as on Windows 7 (well 8 is nothing more than 7 with a pretty face Lol).

The SiSi standard launcher ran, download the repair files (I was testing on my backup PC so had not used it for about 2 weeks, until I installed 8 yesterday), installed the patch files, then download and ran the 'New Launcher', this then launched the client and all was fine.

"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.