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Really...what does foolproof L4 missioning take???

Author
Nemo deBlanc
Resource Acquisition Unlimited
#41 - 2012-02-24 09:27:48 UTC
Zathryon wrote:
Nemo deBlanc wrote:
Zathryon wrote:
Just PYFA'ed a rattlesnake and a Paladin

and wow...ok im kind of mad now for two reasons...


1. the rattlesnake is a correct answer...i hate "right" answers...I want choices!
2. if I had done this from the start I could have saved myself alot of ISK and heartache

for HALF the price of a well fitted Paladin, a rattlesnake has MORE DPS and DOUBLE the tank without needing any frickin cap!!

gah! im so mad!


Wait...what? You can get 1300 dps with a Paladin. There's absolutely no way you're getting even close to that with a Rattler, even with full damage mods, torps, and similair implants.



not when youre trying to tank the sh*t out of it so you can survive the amarr epic arc...
if I was going for a DPS fit it would be a very different story, but thats a very flashy way to lose 950m isk and not my idea of a good time.


Ah, valid point I suppose then. Haven't looked at the Amarr arc in forever.
Thutmose I
Rattium Incorporated
#42 - 2012-02-24 10:31:03 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Dominix would get destroyed in the Gallente Epic arc. Studio 1 and Showtime are painful missions.

Also the Amarr epic arc has a few neuts in various missions.


Domis might be great to go afk in, but the mission will take you far longer than any active tanked gunboat. Also Domi's run a risk of being picked off by griefers who'll take advantage of your aggressive Drones. Same goes for Rattlesnakes that afk with Drones/FoFs.



Neither FoFs nor drones will agro a ninja salvager. I have tested it in a rattlesnake + alt.
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-02-24 11:26:54 UTC
I have just done the Amarr Epic arc in a Dominix.

Normally for level 4s I fly a single rep cap-boosted dominix with 2 large sentry damage augmentors and 3 omnidirectionals. This is enough to do almost every mission. But in the epic arc I had to warp out in structure.

The damage in the Amarr epic arc was way too high so I switched to a dual-rep dominix with 2 capacitor control circuits and 1 large auxillary nano pump as rigs. Also some cap rechargers in the mids. It did make my tank a lot higher and more then enough to perma tank it.
My damage was considerably lower so it took a while.

Also at some point in the arc you will get to fight mercs. They are caldari ships so you need to switch from tanking EM/Thermal to Kinetic/Thermal.

After the first two chapters, the epic arc splits. A highsec and a lowsec part. I did the lowsec part which could be easily done in an Ishkur apart from the very last rat which I had to bring in my ishtar for, but luckily for me, the last mission was in highsec, I don't know if that's always the case.

That also means I can't comment on the highsec part of the arc and I don't know if the damage will get a lot higher then in the first two chapters.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-02-24 16:38:03 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:

The discussion when I replied was discussing AFK dominix setups. Hence my various points related to Studio 1, Showtime and neut missions. Hell the line you quoted for this bit even specifically mentioned AFK setups again.

The Domi is still slower than a gunboat, the Drones make up for the fact you're not only stuck with 6 turrets but the PG is so low that you're forced to use smaller guns. It's a good ship for newer players but once you actually have gunskills worth a damn it's overlooked by many others.


You may have meant that only AFK domis would get blown up in the epic arcs (and I would agree to that), but your initial response did not put that in context, probably why a few pilots jumped up to defend the Domi.

Also, though it might be that domis are slower then gunboats, the decrease in fitting requirement for turrets have made it much easier to fit big guns on the Domi.


Caellach Marellus wrote:
Flying it afk or actually flying it?


Flying it. It may look like a space potato but actually flying it can improve its performance considerably.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#45 - 2012-02-24 21:00:16 UTC
Cyniac wrote:
You may have meant that only AFK domis would get blown up in the epic arcs (and I would agree to that), but your initial response did not put that in context, probably why a few pilots jumped up to defend the Domi.


Fair point, I could have phrased it better.

Quote:
Also, though it might be that domis are slower then gunboats, the decrease in fitting requirement for turrets have made it much easier to fit big guns on the Domi.


It's still really annoying to even fit t2 350's on after the PG nerf. I'll be amazed if someone has a t2 425mm fit that isn't utterly gimped.


Quote:
Flying it. It may look like a space potato but actually flying it can improve its performance considerably.



The problem is the domi's main attraction to many people is that it works as an afk missioner. If you're actively piloting you might as well trade it in for one of several better ships. Coming from someone who spent a good 6-7 months Domi piloting and changed.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Par'Gellen
#46 - 2012-02-25 03:31:43 UTC
I see some rattle-hating going on and want to clarify that my main reason for recommending the Rattlesnake was due to the request for a "foolproof" L4 mission boat (thread title). You would literally have to offline your mods on purpose to be killed in a level 4 in the fit I posted, even with mediocre skills. Sure its DPS isn't stellar compared to a nightmare or marauder but that's not really the point.

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...

Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
#47 - 2012-02-26 00:10:33 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:
I see some rattle-hating going on and want to clarify that my main reason for recommending the Rattlesnake was due to the request for a "foolproof" L4 mission boat (thread title). You would literally have to offline your mods on purpose to be killed in a level 4 in the fit I posted, even with mediocre skills. Sure its DPS isn't stellar compared to a nightmare or marauder but that's not really the point.



and after looking at the options (keeping in mind i am VERY tired of losing ships to this) Im definitely going with the rattler. Its cheap (compared to T3 or Marauder) and the tank is sickeningly good. I dont care if it will take a bit longer, there is no chance ill lose it.

As i said I dont mission for money, im just trying to do the epic arc for the standing, so efficiency isnt my first concern.

Ty all for the input though!
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#48 - 2012-02-26 03:49:53 UTC
Just a quick vote for 'snake as an excellent mission-runner, and also an excellent w-space workhorse. She doesn't pump out the same DPS as the other pirate BSs can, but there's nothing that can tank like her ... and when your skills are up the DPS isn't too shabby either.

I've now replaced my w-space 'snakes with tengu but when I am in empire space and running missions that allow a BS it'll be either the snake or mach.

IMHO the 'snake is as close as a foolproof hisec mission runner as you'll get. Tengu is great but is not quite afk-worthy as a 'snake.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Aramis Rosicrux
Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
#49 - 2012-02-28 00:30:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Aramis Rosicrux
For your skills, and doing Amarr Epic Arc, I would select a standard Apocalypse with eight megapulse lasers and a anti EM and Thermal tank.

True, a Navy Apocalypse is a tougher ship, but you are going to lose a few ships learning the general style. So hold off on the Navy ship until after you have the same ship with no losses for a few months, then you can get a Navy Poc and start collecting faction mods.

Now I assume you have all the core skills, laser and Amarr battleship skills at level five, a 3% hardwire for large laser damage and another implant for tracking or rate-of-fire would be a plus.

There are mission-runner fits for Apocs at several sources, but if you have been running Amarr for a few months you probably have a good idea what to fit. Battle clinic is said to have some good public information about fits.

Biggest hint: On any unknown mission, align to a warp out on entry to each level, kill scrambling frigates first (Acolyte II's or Hobgob II if possible) and watch your tank. Warp out, repair, return. Shoot webber towers and neut towers first if possible, if they are close let the drones fight them.

Oh, and fit tracking enhancers as well as heat sinks, as your NPC enemies will use tracking disruption, and fly T2 if you can, but Meta three if you have to.

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Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#50 - 2012-02-28 01:46:39 UTC
Aramis Rosicrux wrote:
For your skills, and doing Amarr Epic Arc, I would select a standard Apocalypse with eight megapulse lasers and a anti EM and Thermal tank.

True, a Navy Apocalypse is a tougher ship, but you are going to lose a few ships learning the general style. So hold off on the Navy ship until after you have the same ship with no losses for a few months, then you can get a Navy Poc and start collecting faction mods.

Now I assume you have all the core skills, laser and Amarr battleship skills at level five, a 3% hardwire for large laser damage and another implant for tracking or rate-of-fire would be a plus.

There are mission-runner fits for Apocs at several sources, but if you have been running Amarr for a few months you probably have a good idea what to fit. Battle clinic is said to have some good public information about fits.

Biggest hint: On any unknown mission, align to a warp out on entry to each level, kill scrambling frigates first (Acolyte II's or Hobgob II if possible) and watch your tank. Warp out, repair, return. Shoot webber towers and neut towers first if possible, if they are close let the drones fight them.

Oh, and fit tracking enhancers as well as heat sinks, as your NPC enemies will use tracking disruption, and fly T2 if you can, but Meta three if you have to.


How do you feel about the Abaddon versus the Apocalypse for low-skill pilots? I began the Amarr arc in an Apoc but switched to the Abaddon when I found that the tank and raw damage was lacking. For the record, I had roughly 3M SP at the time, BS level 3 and large energy turret level 3. I had T1 hardeners, meta 4 weapons and a repairer, and T2 propulsion and cap rechargers. I believe the only reason I was able to complete the arc with such a low skill level was due to my ship choice. But even then I had to be a bit creative and patient to do so.
Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
#51 - 2012-02-28 22:29:42 UTC
not really a low SP pilot...45M SP in all pvp/pve skills 9M SP in gunnery alone

I love the abaddon but for the epic arc any active tank was just a sh*t show. they sucked down so much cap that it made my tank putter out within seconds, long before I could shoot the neut towers (esp. with the tracking disruption) and my drones couldnt take care of all the frigs before the fireworks show started.
Vrykolakasis
Sparrowhawks Corp
#52 - 2012-02-29 02:25:21 UTC
In this particular situation and with the prerequisite that the ship be "foolproof" I can concede that the rattlesnake is a viable choice. However in the vast majority of situations, and in any situation that was aimed at isk/time, I would recommend against it.
Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
#53 - 2012-02-29 20:18:41 UTC
Im thinking ill get a rattler for the epic arc and I might sell it when im done. probably for standard level 4s Ill go for a pally or navy apoc.
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