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An open debate - CSM 7 Candidates - What is your position on ambulation?

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T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
#41 - 2012-02-29 00:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Ka P'lah wrote:
You don't have much vision, do you? Do you think the concept of the tie-in to EVE is going to stop with dust514, whatever it's initial success? (I happen to think it will do alright) Frankly, ladie harlot, I'm finding it difficult to care whether you take me seriously or not...character flaw on my part, probably..


I think Dust will release with a bunch of marketing fanfare and then quietly die away in a few months. The vast majority of Eve players want nothing to do with a bunch of mouthbreather console kiddies and people who like console shooters don't have the attention span play in such a way to have an impact on Eve like CCP thinks they will.

I'm hopeful that CCP will admit defeat gracefully (and quickly) and not pour a ton of resources into a dumb concept which could put Eve back in the same place we were in last summer. Basically I want them to handle it the same way they handled ambulation by admitting WiS and the NEX were bad ideas and then refocusing on Eve.


WIS is in itself not a bad idea and there's still a substantial amount of players who are interested in it (guessing by conversations I've had on the campaign trail and from reading the forums) - not including the people who are too afraid to admit that they're closet WISlovers because of possible ridicule from peers.
The execution, lack of content and resulting waste of resources is what was most depressing and If there'd actually been something there the time spent developing could have been justified at least a little with some pressure removed from CCP.

www.shipsofeve.com
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#42 - 2012-02-29 00:45:59 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
For the pro WiS crowd I think it's important to clarify a stance. Most FiS people think ambulation would be kinda cool on some level. Can you imagine how we'd be able to mess with people if we can all interact in station? It would be a goon wet dream. The sense of community while sitting in a station playing poker or whatever the hell, hanging out in a space brothel, heck I don't care, it would be cool.


The idea is a cool idea, full stop.

They aren't staffed for the task, they don't have the skillset to bring a quality WiS product, and they siphoned off too much manpower to attempt to pull this off. It hurt the game and that is what people are mostly objecting to. All this development time to give us one room and a sofa?



Reason?

From a Goon?

Oooooh, crikey, the End-Times are upon us!

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-02-29 01:00:16 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
4. I believe Eve has had RMT supported by CCP in at least one form for some time now with Plexes.


That's irrelevant because it's a one-way deal - you buy gametime, sell it to other players for ISK. There's no sanctioned way to liquidate in-game assets for real money, and there should not be - it's bad for business. If a new player wants to drop $2000 on this game to skip months/years of grinding, they might as well pay it to CCP instead of a third party.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#44 - 2012-02-29 01:12:43 UTC
Andski wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Are you confusing it with Micro transactions? For which there a valid methods CCP promote for payment methods for Aurum, namely plex.


Actually, no. Issler believes that RMT should be allowed because it creates jobs for farmers or whatever (lol)

oh and doing anything in a game for "tears" is invariably indicative of a deeper problem in the individual, you can trust her because she minored in "mental health"


Nice ad hominem through implicit (though none-too-subtle: Your ilk just doesn't do subtlety at all well, does it?) false-equivalence, bru.

L2argue.

Next!

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Delici Feelgood
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-02-29 01:25:04 UTC
Andski wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
4. I believe Eve has had RMT supported by CCP in at least one form for some time now with Plexes.


That's irrelevant because it's a one-way deal - you buy gametime, sell it to other players for ISK. There's no sanctioned way to liquidate in-game assets for real money, and there should not be - it's bad for business. If a new player wants to drop $2000 on this game to skip months/years of grinding, they might as well pay it to CCP instead of a third party.


Again where is Issler saying anything in connection with a third party.

She is specifically refering to offical CCP sanctioned RMT with the purchace of Plex hence the words "supported by CCP".

Suggest not twisting the english language, and as was pointed out above learn to debate. More importantly learn to apologise when you accuse someone without proof and the position is then clarified.
Midori Amiiko
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-02-29 01:47:18 UTC
"The vast majority of Eve players want nothing to do with a bunch of mouthbreather console kiddies..."
Ladie (Sca)Harlot

I would expand that thought to include Goons. Yet here we are, faced with you.




If CCP markets the idea of neckbeard tears to the console kiddies, they'll line up like crows on a clothesline to get a sip.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-02-29 02:31:35 UTC
sorry, I don't engage in exchanges with forum alts

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-02-29 03:01:44 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Nice ad hominem through implicit (though none-too-subtle: Your ilk just doesn't do subtlety at all well, does it?) false-equivalence, bru.

L2argue.

Next!


Aww...somebody read the Wikipedia article about rhetoric. :shobon:

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2012-02-29 03:03:26 UTC
Midori Amiiko wrote:
"The vast majority of Eve players want nothing to do with a bunch of mouthbreather console kiddies..."
Ladie (Sca)Harlot

I would expand that thought to include Goons. Yet here we are, faced with you.




If CCP markets the idea of neckbeard tears to the console kiddies, they'll line up like crows on a clothesline to get a sip.



There's a "Quote" button that does all the quoting for you. No need to copy and paste and type quotation marks.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Taiwanistan
#50 - 2012-02-29 04:14:59 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Andski wrote:
only dumb roleplayers who support RMT care about ambulation


you mean goons and other null blocks that do RMT Straight


PS. every thread that dosnt support mittani as (self-proclaime chaiman for life) will be trolled by his minions

ahahahah this guy role plays battered goon spouse and has a biography on eve-wiki about it.

wis or ambulation a roman orgy of all-you-can-eat social /dance o7m8 dressup, unrestrained do ask do tell out and proud at the space bar dollhouse, all the evolving new and exciting things you've ever wanted.

hey why you use ambulation does it sound less lispy?

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-03-01 03:40:31 UTC
A team of 5 sent to work on avatars . . . ok

An entire cycle dedicated to giving us a room and a couch? Not so good.

I think it would be useful as an interface mechanism between the Harlot decried soon to be dead Dust and ourselves. Might give Dust some longevity if the interface is smooth enough.

I am wondering if those against it think the code should be removed to make a leaner meaner Eve or left there to atrophy/wither. Use it or lose it.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2012-03-01 08:39:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Vile rat
Issler Dainze wrote:

A reasonable post worthy of a response, thanks for that.

Everyone that wasn't interested in ambulation likes to think all of Eve was happy that CCP stopped ambulation development. What people we happy about was that CCP finally stopped using Eve as the revenue source for focus on other games and started putting dev effort back on Eve.

What makes you think that CCP can't do both at the same time? The fact that Incarna was such a faceplant was because all the focus of CCP was on WoD and Dust, not because they couldn't do ambulation and space content at the same time.

The future of Eve and the way to get Eve out of "niche" game status will depend on ambulation.

So we'll have to agree to disagree I suspect.

Issler


Yes, but the path of history suggests that we were right to be skeptical of CCP's ability to accomplish both tasks. You are making one big unfortunate assumption in your post here that Eve employees were split between the space game and the WoD/dust/WiS game. The Eve people worked on both WiS and FiS and the WoD crew was a separate group based out of Atlanta and has been severely stripped down due to the reorg. Also one thing that needs to be considered is their personnel were not watered down due to Dust, Dust is almost completely outsourced with only the link between Dust and Eve being done in house.

My point to you is that CCP already had their Eve crew split between WiS and FiS and we saw the result. Eve dudes weren't farmed out to work on other stuff, they just didn't have the manpower to produce an effective product that split their attention in such a manner. Now they are bringing a lot of people who had worked on other projects to focus on the core product again and THIS IS A GOOD THING, but don't for a minute suggest that this means they can just pivot and pump out both concepts at a high level, this would be a dangerous guess on your part.



Now WiS isn't going anywhere, it's there and it'll be worked on and improved. The debate as I see it is if you are in favor of FiS resources being shifted to make that improvement happen quicker or not. After the last expansion we saw what happens when they focus all their attention on the game we play now and the results were very encouraging. I'd prefer CSM candidates continue to encourage them to go down this road and make the space ship game better before they spend any time giving my guy a space espresso machine to go with his space sofa in his isolated space room.
Mintrolio
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-03-01 11:48:03 UTC
CONFRIMIGN THESE IS VER UNUSE QEUSTIONS.

ALSO IN MINE OPINONS THER IS REALY NO NEED FUR AMBULANCE IN EVE. ALSO MAYBE MAKIGN LOGI HAFIGN THIS ROLE, LIEK 1000% BONUS TO CARGO TO HOLDIGN 2 POD LIKE AMBULANCE.

BUT ALSO I AM THINKIGN THIS RELY NOT FITTIGN MIT EVE FUR ME.

KEEP UP GOOD POASTIGN.

MINTROLIO FUR CSM7
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-03-01 13:02:27 UTC
Ambulation has tons of potential & needs to happen.
CCP simply needs to release the product with some actual content, rather than simply playing with (and showing off) dolls.

I want WiS, but it shouldn't even be in our sights until it's got some actual framework and nears completion.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#55 - 2012-03-01 16:50:56 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:

A reasonable post worthy of a response, thanks for that.

Everyone that wasn't interested in ambulation likes to think all of Eve was happy that CCP stopped ambulation development. What people we happy about was that CCP finally stopped using Eve as the revenue source for focus on other games and started putting dev effort back on Eve.

What makes you think that CCP can't do both at the same time? The fact that Incarna was such a faceplant was because all the focus of CCP was on WoD and Dust, not because they couldn't do ambulation and space content at the same time.

The future of Eve and the way to get Eve out of "niche" game status will depend on ambulation.

So we'll have to agree to disagree I suspect.

Issler


Yes, but the path of history suggests that we were right to be skeptical of CCP's ability to accomplish both tasks. You are making one big unfortunate assumption in your post here that Eve employees were split between the space game and the WoD/dust/WiS game. The Eve people worked on both WiS and FiS and the WoD crew was a separate group based out of Atlanta and has been severely stripped down due to the reorg. Also one thing that needs to be considered is their personnel were not watered down due to Dust, Dust is almost completely outsourced with only the link between Dust and Eve being done in house.

My point to you is that CCP already had their Eve crew split between WiS and FiS and we saw the result. Eve dudes weren't farmed out to work on other stuff, they just didn't have the manpower to produce an effective product that split their attention in such a manner. Now they are bringing a lot of people who had worked on other projects to focus on the core product again and THIS IS A GOOD THING, but don't for a minute suggest that this means they can just pivot and pump out both concepts at a high level, this would be a dangerous guess on your part.



Now WiS isn't going anywhere, it's there and it'll be worked on and improved. The debate as I see it is if you are in favor of FiS resources being shifted to make that improvement happen quicker or not. After the last expansion we saw what happens when they focus all their attention on the game we play now and the results were very encouraging. I'd prefer CSM candidates continue to encourage them to go down this road and make the space ship game better before they spend any time giving my guy a space espresso machine to go with his space sofa in his isolated space room.


Thanks for a reasoned response. I do feel being skeptical of what CCP can deliver is the smart position. I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt at this point.

I never have advocated a dramatic reduction of focus on FiS for WiS. I just want to make sure someone is the little voice in their head that won't let them get away with abandoning ambulation for another 5 years.

Thanks for responding,

Issler
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2012-03-01 17:16:35 UTC
Actually mining is a real problem and this csm is going to be in an amazing position to influence it. We all know mining is a boring mechanism, it's soul crushing but it at least is worth doing ...





says Vile rat circa 2006. Mining is a major mechanism in the game and has sat on its ass forever. The drone regions crushed the high ends, highsec mission drops destroyed the mids and macro botting sucked the lows out from underneath us. Mining has been identified as a definite area for improvement so I'd pay close attention to candidates who display a real understanding of the mechanics and positive ideas for modest improvement.
asidburn Enaka
The 501st Legion
#57 - 2012-03-08 08:44:39 UTC
i just want to let everyone know about this scammer claming to be giving plex for votes dont be caught falling for this scam vote aganist darius III member of interstellar eXodus {IE-EX} they are scaming people pass the word on to everyone you can and vote aganist these undeserving jerks here is a copy of the chat log as proof of there unworthy actions!!!!!!!!

asidburn Enaka > what do i need to do
Darius III > http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=480 go there
Darius III > vote for me then paste the message you got after vote cast into this chat
asidburn Enaka > your vote has been registered. We thank you for your participation.
Darius III > Thanks man
Darius III > that concludes our business
Darius III > Fly safe
asidburn Enaka > and what about the contract
asidburn Enaka > i will have my alliance vote aganist you about 250 people
asidburn Enaka > and then where will you be
asidburn Enaka > send me the contract and i will have them vote for you
asidburn Enaka > this is what we call a test of charecture
Darius III > Have them vote against me
Darius III > Sorry for the ssam
Darius III > But I wouldnt sleep at night if I didnt do everything in my power to make syure that Goons dont ruin this CSM
asidburn Enaka > your an idiot all your going to do is send more votes to the goons
Darius III > not really
Darius III > Goons will win chairman nbo matetr what, doesnt matter
Darius III > nothing can stop them
Darius III > and thats a real shame
asidburn Enaka > well you just lost 243 votes
asidburn Enaka > got 1 lost 243
Darius III > Didnt have them anyway
Darius III > didnt lose anything
Darius III > Just please dont make forum post about me, it would ruin my campaign
asidburn Enaka > not to mentone att the isk spam bans you r about to get
asidburn Enaka > too late
asidburn Enaka > and i just copyed this conv
asidburn Enaka > so i can post
Darius III > You wouldnt dare do it
Darius III > You too lazy anyway
Darius III > I dont have a thing to worry about
asidburn Enaka > haha i play eve 8 hrs a day and im retired all i have is time
Darius III > no lazy bones like you would waste their time. LOL so much for your empty threats LOL

rember i dont care who you vote for just dont voter for the
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