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Supercap Reballancing
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#161 - 2012-02-29 00:41:14 UTC
FLAWLESS POSTING VICTORY

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#162 - 2012-02-29 00:41:30 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
because you've now declared that remote doomsday removal happened, then shrike happened, then later on that patch i linked happened

guess why that timeline is...highly unlikely

i'll give you a hint it can be found in those patch notes



You mean these patch notes?
Quote:
Adding a new dimension to space combat in EVE, Revelations II brings you Heat: the ability to overload starship modules for a temporary boost in performance, but at the risk of damaging the module.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#163 - 2012-02-29 00:43:34 UTC
So I put the question to you again, are you standing by your statement that Titans couldn't be tackled at all until Heat was released?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#164 - 2012-02-29 00:43:39 UTC
grath, hit "ctrl-f" in those patch notes, enter "doom", read what you see there, then contemplate how your lifetime of bad posting has lead you to this...doom

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#165 - 2012-02-29 00:48:50 UTC
Tore Vest wrote:
baltec1 wrote:



Because blobs of subcaps have never been unbeatable. If you knew your history you would know this.


No ships are unbeatable bro.... you should know this Bear


Aside from titan blobs you are right.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#166 - 2012-02-29 00:49:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
Weaselior wrote:
because you've now declared that remote doomsday removal happened, then shrike happened, then later on that patch i linked happened




So once upon a time, an alliance called Band Of Brothers was the premiere supercap force in EVE, utilizing something like 3 titans (Shrike, Orange Speicies, Chow Down) to utilize whats called a portal dooms day.

In this, a frigate would fly up, light a cyno, and a titan, safely stored in a POS would lite a DD, and it would come through the cyno and kill everything on the frigates grid.


This was deemed unacceptable (And lets be honest, that was nutty), and so it was nerfed. 1 Week later, the hero frigate uncloaked Shrike as he was trying to hide after DDing a Goon fleet on the gate (I was in that fleet). There is video of him dying, including the hooting of many a wild Goon and a very young me, who had died in the initial assault to the marauding titans.


Later, I would leave KOS and move on to other non crap alliances like Imperial Order and Fatal Alliance, eventually falling in with STK when the patch finally came through that you are linking now.


But please Weaselior, tell me more, about how titans couldn't be tackled before heat?



Quote:
Titans can no longer fire doomsday devices remotely.
Titans can not jump for the next 10 minutes after firing a doomsday device.

I assume you mean this, but this 100% happened before heat, station services, and jump bridges, which are the main 'new things' in that patch.

Now either one of 2 things happened, either A) That is simply wrong, and shouldn't be a part of those patch notes B) Heat, Station Services, and Jump Bridges got delayed to the next patch.

Regardless, Titans have always been tacklable, literally that was the main driver behind the remote DD, that titans could be tackled and killed (as was proved days after the patch), but that they never had any need to leave a POS's shields to do what they did.

You have a wiki dude, just go look at the histories that are in it, its one of the best parts about your damn wiki.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#167 - 2012-02-29 00:50:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
baltec1 wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:


Again, how will my solution put "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"?


Capital pilots are a minority and simply adding more caps means the huge bulk that cant fly them are reduced to nothing more than a meat sheild.

It also means that the big 4 will simply blob them up so that not only do they have the titans to wipe out anything a small alliance could bring but would also mean they wouldnt attack eachother. Result? The same stagnation we saw with the supercarriers for a year and a half before the NC folded only this time, nobody will be stupid enough to sell capitals to the enemy.

If we go with EAF however every alliance can take part, newer players are made important for a fleet which is good for them and we avoid our virsion of the coldwar stockpiling of nukes that will never get used for fear of getting nuked themselves. The other upside being that currently useless ships become wanted.


How small do you think that minority is Baltec, with almost 11.000 active characters in game with more than 100 million skillpoints?

And again you refuse to answer my question. Probably because even in your simple mind you see that you have no ******* argument.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#168 - 2012-02-29 00:51:19 UTC
grath i'm actually feeling bad for you at this point so I'm just going to put this out there rather than giving you the most unsubtle hints possible: if you read those patch notes you will find that was the same patch that nerfed the remote doomsday, making your timeline impossible

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Tore Vest
#169 - 2012-02-29 00:51:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Tore Vest wrote:
baltec1 wrote:



Because blobs of subcaps have never been unbeatable. If you knew your history you would know this.


No ships are unbeatable bro.... you should know this Bear


Aside from titan blobs you are right.

You can allso say that 200 maels are unbeatable for 50 drakes .. rigth ? Bear

No troll.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#170 - 2012-02-29 00:54:27 UTC
really i gave you every chance possible to slink away

but in the end times, when the book of good posting is opened we will not find the name "grath telkin" written in it, and he shall be cast into the pit of bad posting, where one may hear naught but ordo posts and one may see naught but penif posts

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#171 - 2012-02-29 00:56:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
I edited my post after you made your first post, you're still wrong.


EDIT: Don't be a bitter goon weasel, you know some penif posts are pretty damn funny, especially the bites.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#172 - 2012-02-29 00:57:59 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
So, ignoring the first part since people have been posting in 3 threads for days about how to 'cheaply' counter supers, I'll address the second part:


You said that battleships shouldn't be able to (and probably cant') [its in your quote] volley a logi thats moving.

I say it can, and provide you with at least 3 ship classes that can.


You then respond by relating all of those in some way to a titan.


The original point still stands, Subcaps can volley a logi that is moving, how is that in some way different from a Titan doing it?


The original quote (which you wrote Blink )

Grey Azorria wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

The original point still stands, Subcaps can volley a logi that is moving, how is that in some way different from a Titan doing it?

They should not be able to (and tbh probably can't) volley a logi that is moving. If it is stationary however, then blap away.

So no, I was not talking about subcaps, I was talking about titans.

And I am way to tired right now to explain why your welp-nought fleet won't work. But suffice to say, given the amount of times it has been tried, if it did work, then everyone would use it.

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#173 - 2012-02-29 00:59:17 UTC
grath those are the revalations II patch notes and literally every source you will find states clearly shrike died right after that patch

come now this is just undignified, have some self-respect and go hide like a little girl

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#174 - 2012-02-29 01:00:00 UTC
Grey Azorria wrote:
But suffice to say, given the amount of times it has been tried, if it did work, then everyone would use it.


Goons tried it once, it worked perfectly, I don't understand what you're talking about.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#175 - 2012-02-29 01:00:44 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

I think you should look at the numbers, the real actual numbers again. 70 dreads has a hell of a volley, easily killing a tracking fit titan in nearly one volley, 2 finishes it off.


Also exactly 2 tank mods shields a dread from dying to a DD, so to lose 15, you'd need to get hit by 30 DD's fired in the exact right order, you're more likely to lose either A) None since the SOP is to fire DD's randomly at caps or B) 5-10 at most if they were smart enough to double up on targets.

I'm not making any of this up, its actually all in the math, if you wanted to look its there.


Titan balls haven't been countered yet because nobody has actively tried.






EVE has a hard coded habbit of crying nerf first and then later its discovered that people don't need a nerf, just a little forethought.

Examples are, when we first put Ahacs on the map, people were crying that the logis were too strong, that they needed nerfing, later it turned out that Ahacs are actually terrible and easily countered by themselves.

When we rolled out the tengu fleet, the same thing, tengus were fairly strong. Now that everybody and their brother has a Tengu fleet up the counters are beyond obvious.



The same will be said about the titan ball. Right now their only showing up from 3-4 alliances, the other that could field them (AAA) won't, for obvious reasons (they have a lot, but we have more, and ours are probably better at flying the ship in combat than theirs are). Goons and the CFC are making a massive push to get people into titans right now, their industry is literally churning them out and an amazing speed, as well as dreads. As the number of alliances with titan fleets increases, the counters will become more obvious as they are used by other people in the game that already thought of them, and planned for their use.

Our dread fleets, let me show them to you.


See this is where your liitle theory falls apart, we have dropped suicide dreads. We scored one kill for a decimated fleet.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#176 - 2012-02-29 01:01:41 UTC
but if you insist on managing to have less dignity than a little girl who ran off and hid then please do link anything whatsoever to support your crazy timewarp theory

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#177 - 2012-02-29 01:03:00 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
grath those are the revalations II patch notes and literally every source you will find states clearly shrike died right after that patch


Look bro, ask anybody in your alliance, Mynas eve, if titans were ever NOT able to be tackled. Lets try starting there.


Then we can move on to how off the Rev II patch notes are.


Then we can move on to your unhealthy obsession with me.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#178 - 2012-02-29 01:03:17 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:


Again, how will my solution put "the VAST bulk of people having no say what-so-ever"?


Capital pilots are a minority and simply adding more caps means the huge bulk that cant fly them are reduced to nothing more than a meat sheild.

It also means that the big 4 will simply blob them up so that not only do they have the titans to wipe out anything a small alliance could bring but would also mean they wouldnt attack eachother. Result? The same stagnation we saw with the supercarriers for a year and a half before the NC folded only this time, nobody will be stupid enough to sell capitals to the enemy.

If we go with EAF however every alliance can take part, newer players are made important for a fleet which is good for them and we avoid our virsion of the coldwar stockpiling of nukes that will never get used for fear of getting nuked themselves. The other upside being that currently useless ships become wanted.


How small do you think that minority is Baltec, with almost 11.000 active characters in game with more than 100 million skillpoints?

And again you refuse to answer my question. Probably because even in your simple mind you see that you have no ******* argument.


Perhaps if you read what I type you might see it.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#179 - 2012-02-29 01:05:01 UTC
grath im gonna do you a solid and suggest you go ask around your alliance because you're going to find you've massively embarrassed yourself

i've even stopped quoting you so you can go edit out most of these posts when reality sets in and the shame comes crashing down

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#180 - 2012-02-29 01:07:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


See this is where your liitle theory falls apart, we have dropped suicide dreads. We scored one kill for a decimated fleet.


Actually goons have admitted that but for a really bad bounce on jump in, they'd have killed more.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.