Ships & Modules

Okay, firstly you didn't answer my question.

Secondly, Do point to anywhere I said it's the only way? Or even where I tried to hammer anyone into any specific fit?..Oh wait, that would be you by claiming others are one trick ponies by using a way which isn't yours. As far as I'm aware (I could be wrong, I'm sure you will correct me) auto cannons on a maelstrom is the most commonly used method for missions. Why? Because everyone else is one trick too? Or, because it works.

I gave the OP an efficient and fast way. Nothing more to it. My fit is full T2 yes, what's the problem? Aside from the guns, it doesn't really take that long to train for, even in EvE terms the guns don't take that long to train for, or, would you suggest he starts training for the inefficient way first?

My fit is also extremely cheap with no faction mods on it.

I also stated people have different opinions, you however, slated people for THEIR opinions because it was not yours. My tone is in response to yours, if you think I should adjust my attitude, then that starts with how you reply.

I'm still waiting for you to answer my question though, but hey, I'll even throw you a bone and say your RoF is 20 seconds with 1400 (I'd look at EFT but it's vanished from my computer and I'm not flying back to my station to equip), but let's not forget, base they are 40 seconds.

Then, I'll take a simple killing mission: The Score. Shows up a fair bit, straight forward, and to the point.

First gate is 61km away.

4x Cruisers
2x destroyers
1x BC

8x Frigates
3x Destroyers
4x Cruisers
3x Battlecruisers

Now, for me to do this room, as soon as I've entered, first thing I do is hit my AB and fly towards the gate. All ships are dead by the time I get there. It takes me 10 minutes to do the mission (I actually timed myself yesterday :D). Bear in mind, I started timing from the minute I hit my AB, not from undocking.

This is 1 room out of 3.

For arguments sake, I'll be very generous and say your Arties hit for Ten hundred trillion billion each hit. With a nice generous RoF at 20 seconds. I'll even exclude locking time, AND! I'll even let you use my tactics of burning to the gate, rather than away from them (since, your tactics are kiting) AND!!! On top of that! (Aren't I nice) I'll even give you 100% hit chance at your ten hundred trillion billion damage. Let's say gazzillion to make it simple.

That's 25 ships.

20s RoF.

A gazzillion damage each will equal 500 seconds. Or, better known as just over 8 minutes.

For the first room.

You'll have another 35 ships in the next two rooms.

But I'm clearly one trick because I shouldn't be using the optimal method! Silly me.

But, you might be right and the OP can't use all T2 stuff, it still wouldn't change much. Arties will give you a lot of overkill, and the price to pay for that extra damage, is time between your shots. If you want to suicide gank and get that kill before concord shows up, sure! For huge shiny numbers? Sure! For quick efficient mission running? Nope.

Arties are good weapons for what they do, quick efficient missions, isn't really one of them. Worlds collide would probably be better with arties, but again, for every mission like WC there's 50 that would be better for AC's, but it would make sense to train for arties prior? The biggest and best side to arties is the cost in ammo. For point to point in damage to cost ratio, arties would win hands down, but even then, time is money, and AC's do them faster, so while costing more, you get a higher ISK per hour anyway.

But I'll state once more, no where did I say the OP MUST use AC's, no where did I hammer my opinion onto people. That my friend, would be you by making petty insults because you don't agree with them.

Expecting a TL;DR, most people do that when they actually did read it, but want to avoid answering.

TL;DR: I am not here to measure my **** against your's.

Arty maelstroms are very good for missions. You don't need as much tank because your not letting stuff get close.

In fact, I wouldn't recommend large autocannons for missions at all unless you are flying a Varg or Mach.

[Maelstrom, Level 4]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

100MN Afterburner II
X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I

I keep recommend 2 sets of light drones and one set of mediums. Change invulns to mission specific hardeners. You can drop the ACR if your willing to use a PG implant.

With low skills you might be better off with 1200s for tracking, but 1400s are great if you can fit them.

They don't get close with AC's either, infact I have less closing on me with ACs burning to them/the gate than if I were to use Arty while burning away from them at max speed.

I started with Arties (1200's first then when I could equip them properly 1400s then back to 1200's since they were better imo) religiously, and hated using AC's, then after a few more missions I realised how much faster it was. I had a huge struggle in debating which to train T2 first but so glad I did AC's.

It's been a long time now so maybe T1 arties might help to clear out those hard hitting battleships with low skills, but train up correctly and AC's will do the job much better.

As for tank, I run with 2 hardeners and an X-large S-Booster, that's hardly a massive tank, it's actually overkill really and there's very few missions I'll need to pulse the booster much at all since everything dies so fast, so really, I wouldn't recommend arties either, but each to their own. If one does go for them, then I'd strongly suggest the 1200's over 1400s anyway. They might be easier for the lower skilled pilot but it's been a long time since I've used T1 so I don't know...but one thing we all have in common, is that we all gain skills, and it's where you want to be in 6 months rather than "right now" tbh.

Edit, I also notice you need to fit rigs for PG, while I fit for pure damage, and I can use a T2 X-large shield with loads of PG to spare (not so much CPU left but don't need it anyway) other than that, my tank is pretty much identical.

1 word of advice: don't use Capacitor Control Circuits on Maelstroms, use Core Defense Capacitor Safeguards. They are just as effective for your active tank's lifespan and cost less money and calibration (you can fit 2 CDCS's and a Tech II Burst Aerator).

Also, with 2 Tracking Enhancers and a Tracking Computer, Optimal Range, you can hit stuff out at 40 km anyways. There's no reason to need more range than that (and if there is, just swap in an Afterburner for that mission).

I'm starting to think your trolling. You aren't even making sense. 14k shots? That would be a group of 10 1400's with faction ammo. I assure you no one PvEs in a mael with 10 gun groups. Even with ACs you shouldn't be putting all your guns in one group, but its simply a crime with arty.

I have no idea how you get 20 seconds per frig in your earlier post. Normal frigs are 1 gun, elite frigs sometimes 2. With 8 guns that is a frig every 2 seconds, or an elite frig every 4 if we assume the worst case and every elite frig takes 2 hits.

And I know that you that your aren't killing frigs at 70km with 1 gun every shot. A maxed skill Varg with named implants doesn't even do that.

Excluding wrecking hits a 800mm w/3 gyros on a maelstrom with maxed skills and faction ammo would be doing ~45 damage/round at that range.

Because its not possible that you pop frigs in one shot every time. Even with barrage at 70km excluding wrecking hits you will be under 35% of your maximum potential dps because of how far you are into falloff. This means each gun will do an average of 93 damage before resists. (alot higher then the last number because of barrage's falloff) Npc frigs however have far more than 90hp, and they have resists.


I never disputed that ACs do more damage until ~25km. They do, after that arty quickly takes the lead, and still does enough dps to break the majority of NPC tanks out to 100km.

Secondly, T2 ammo sucks for PvE. Faction ammo is where the good times are. You can make an argument for Barrage. The rest suck for PvE. Comparing a ship using barrage to a "PvE" ship using quake or tremor is just disingenuous. They are very poor outside of their niche uses, and PvE is almost always outside this niche. Unless of course you are proposing someone brings an alt with tracking links, or snipe all their missions from 100km.



I'm not sure where you are getting that from. No one but you are the only one that proposed anything that would come close to that. The only fit I posted or discussed has an optimal of 39km with max skills.



Misses are very rare if you pilot your ship correctly. Even close range ships are not an issue if you pay attention and react accordingly. You have 3 options to give you a near 0 transversal. You will always be able to employ one of these tactics with npc cruisers and BS.
1)Be outside the targets optimal, and it approaches at a straight line. 0 transversal
2)Be inside the targets optimal, and approach, it trys to get into its optimal, running in a straight line. 0 transversal
3)When it tries to orbit, match its speed in the direction its going. You will end up with both ships heading almost the same direction, and almost the same speed. Transversal will be higher than 0, but still low enough to hit easily.

As I said in my post, arty can kill frigs outside of 20km. Unless the player makes a mistake, or its one of the few missions where they spawn that close to you it will not be an issue. However when it is, you have drones to take care of them

Can be tricky.

You concentrate on bs rats. Even that close, you still will hit them with guns, even arti.

Kill frigs with drones and light missiles using missile launchers or assault missile launchers. Or you can rely solely on drones. Mael has 3 missile bays. Most people use 8 guns, but if you got to augment your drones to kill web and scram frigs, I would fit one or two missile launchers, three is probably overkill, but you do have that option.

Split your weapons into 2 groups of 4 and stagger your shots. helps conserve ammo and kills frigs faster. (arties or ACs)

That might work for ACs but for arty you need at LEAST 4 groups of 2 to not waste time and ammo. Having the guns ungrouped, if you can/like that, is perhaps the best way of doing it.

About the CCC rigs, from what I've read on the topic CCC is better and not that much more expensive if you are planning on making them yourself from salvage or just on not loosing the ship. I loose 50dps (60 at allV) sustained tank using 3 CDCS instead of the 3 CCCs not to mention increased sig from 460 to 556.

With 2 its less obviously but still less tank even and I dunno if the extra dps, esp on an arty platform, will make as much difference as on an AC platform.

But to each his own :)