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Supercap Reballancing
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Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#81 - 2012-02-28 20:34:09 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:

Still a proliferation problem, but that problem is directly connected to the Isk faucet that is tech. And since only the biggest Alliances can hold tech for any length of time, the problem is magnifed. Until CCP fixes that isk faucet, and perhaps tries to distribute some of that value among all moons, nothing will really change.....Cool



PL holds a fairly large number of tech moons, yet we're nowhere near the biggest alliance, and though a few of us may be adding Supers with Tech, thats not the main source of the average member buying a super.


Though i do agree Tech is a problem (sort of) in that its highly concentrated in one area of the map, the Moons are largely the number one fight creator in the game right now, much more so than system timers, since there is only one timer, and its worth so much.

If you remove that, you remove the fight generator, and 0.0 becomes more stale.


On the other hand, we as an alliance subsidize supers (well for the 9 dudes we have left with no super/titan), but the bulk of the isk they accumulate comes directly from Incursions.

A proper incursion group running incursions can drum up enough isk to buy a super in the cycle of a single incursions spawn and despawn.

That, is where your current proliferation is springing from, incursions have added so much isk to the game that literally anybody who wants a super can easily go out and buy one.


Perhaps my use of the word biggest was inappropriate, I should have said richest....which you guys do qualify for...Lol

Agreed, Incursions may be out of hand isk wise, but that isk at least goes to the individual players, rather than the Alliances. Many of those people may buy Supers with them, but in their current form, I don't know why anyone would want a Supercarrier unless you happen to join one of the few alliances with the isk/balls to risk them.

The problem now is, you can't just take some of them out of the game, and with all the new nerfs to them most people that do not belong to the Techmongers club either won't log them on, or have orders not to log them on.

So, how do you save the horse after the barn has burned to the ground? Shocked

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2012-02-28 20:55:42 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
but that isk at least goes to the individual players, rather than the Alliances.


Our tech moons go 50/50 between players and the alliance.


Realistically, the only way to 'save the horse after we've burned down the barn" is for CCP to actually listen to the people who use titans instead of the people who only want them gone to make their game easier.


There is a huge group of myths propagated by the CFC and the southern block right now, largely built off of stuff they just made up and have no actual game knowledge to back up, they're just guessing, until 2 weeks ago they didn't even know you couldn't refit if there were too many supers nearby.

An erebus that crashed logged back on and normal game mechanics take effect, and suddenly the southern half of eve is crying exploit because they simply don't understand basic game mechanics.


The CFC wants to kill everything with BS and ignore capital ships completely in EVE, and expects everybody else to want the same thing.


These are the people making the most noise, and with Soundwave being an ex-Goon, and calling the shots, these are the people he's listening to the most, even though its all just stuff they've made up.


In short, nothing you do will save the horse because the guy running the show is simply listening to his old friends instead of dealing in actual game mechanics.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#83 - 2012-02-28 21:07:02 UTC
lets listen to the 300 who fly titans and make everything not a supercap useless in a battle.

Or we can listen to the tens of thousands who dont fly titans and want to have EVE return to a game in which they can matter as much as the 1%.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#84 - 2012-02-28 21:10:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
baltec1 wrote:
lets listen to the 300 who fly titans and make everything not a supercap useless in a battle.

Or we can listen to the tens of thousands who dont fly titans and want to have EVE return to a game in which they can matter as much as the 1%.


I'd rather not listen to any of you tbh. You dont bring anything new to the table anyway. Just a god damn mud slinging contest.

edit: At least Grath is capable of logic argumentation, which is more than can be said about you baltec.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#85 - 2012-02-28 21:13:03 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Reilly Duvolle wrote:


I'd rather not listen to any of you tbh. You dont bring anything new to the table anyway. Just a god damn mud slinging contest.


Thankfully CCP is right now working on changes to the tracking of titans so this issue is about to vanish.

Now as for logic, please, tell us how to stop a blob of titans from killing any subcap setup?
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#86 - 2012-02-28 21:17:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Now as for logic, please, tell us how to stop a blob of titans from killing any subcap setup?


If you dont know how I think CCP should handle that question by now Baltec, I reccommed you train reading comprehension level 1.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#87 - 2012-02-28 21:17:10 UTC
You won't balance SuperCaps because you aren't trying to.
You can compare this to the Drake Blobs, it's the same thing. The trouble isn't the ship, it's the blob.

I've spent enough time in Super Caps on Test server to know that they are vulnerable, they can die and alot faster than you think. Just not in a blob. So the only thing any "balance" will do is cripple them so people simply don't log them in.
Angel Lust
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#88 - 2012-02-28 21:21:03 UTC
baltec1...
Please stop posting
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#89 - 2012-02-28 21:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
Skydell wrote:
You won't balance SuperCaps because you aren't trying to.
You can compare this to the Drake Blobs, it's the same thing. The trouble isn't the ship, it's the blob.

I've spent enough time in Super Caps on Test server to know that they are vulnerable, they can die and alot faster than you think. Just not in a blob. So the only thing any "balance" will do is cripple them so people simply don't log them in.


Fair point indeed. There are ways of "balancing" the blob of course, but that will require som major redesigns of EVEs combat system.

Anyways, the less options and tools a fleet commander has at his disposal, the more it is likeley he will field a homogenous blob of similar ships. The more complex and rock-paper-scissors like the game is, the more likeley it is for him to field a combined arms fleet with fifferent capabilities and different jobs, preferably where tactics is more important than numbers.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#90 - 2012-02-28 21:26:19 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Now as for logic, please, tell us how to stop a blob of titans from killing any subcap setup?


If you dont know how I think CCP should handle that question by now Baltec, I reccommed you train reading comprehension level 1.


I know you have yet to provide that question with an answer. Mainly because there is none. A ship that invalidates everything but more of itself is harmfull to the game and it is fantastic news for everyone that there are finally getting delt with. Not so great for the people who rely compleatly upon them mind you but thats the price they pay for going for the FOTM.
Tore Vest
#91 - 2012-02-28 21:40:19 UTC
I hope EVE survive this.... "balancing" thing that is going on now.....
Clearly....
There is people working on things that do not care of the good of this game....
Or....
Are working after false information.

No troll.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#92 - 2012-02-28 21:41:24 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


I know you have yet to provide that question with an answer. Mainly because there is none. A ship that invalidates everything but more of itself is harmfull to the game and it is fantastic news for everyone that there are finally getting delt with. Not so great for the people who rely compleatly upon them mind you but thats the price they pay for going for the FOTM.




I wonder if you've heard of something called a dread fleet, they're in the ship class between battleships and supercaps.


They are the absolute counter to tracking fit titans, and they're insurable so the cost upon loss is negligible.




But you already knew all that, you just want to ignore the facts since its counter productive to your argument.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#93 - 2012-02-28 21:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
baltec1 wrote:

I know you have yet to provide that question with an answer. Mainly because there is none. A ship that invalidates everything but more of itself is harmfull to the game and it is fantastic news for everyone that there are finally getting delt with. Not so great for the people who rely compleatly upon them mind you but thats the price they pay for going for the FOTM.


Not provided an answer? Can I point you here? And here? And here?.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#94 - 2012-02-28 21:56:03 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:



I wonder if you've heard of something called a dread fleet, they're in the ship class between battleships and supercaps.


They are the absolute counter to tracking fit titans, and they're insurable so the cost upon loss is negligible.




But you already knew all that, you just want to ignore the facts since its counter productive to your argument.


You mean the 200+ dreads people would need to make any kind of impact before they got taken out by the DDs + turrets of the titans which were brought about for the task of killing capital ships?

Exactly how many alliances could manage a fleet of welpdreads and the replacement of the inevetable large losses that would be taken?

CCP have said they don't want to see capital ships online. That is what we currently have.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#95 - 2012-02-28 21:57:40 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

I know you have yet to provide that question with an answer. Mainly because there is none. A ship that invalidates everything but more of itself is harmfull to the game and it is fantastic news for everyone that there are finally getting delt with. Not so great for the people who rely compleatly upon them mind you but thats the price they pay for going for the FOTM.


Not provided an answer? Can I point you here? And here? And here?.


None of which provide counters for subcaps.
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#96 - 2012-02-28 22:03:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

I know you have yet to provide that question with an answer. Mainly because there is none. A ship that invalidates everything but more of itself is harmfull to the game and it is fantastic news for everyone that there are finally getting delt with. Not so great for the people who rely compleatly upon them mind you but thats the price they pay for going for the FOTM.


Not provided an answer? Can I point you here? And here? And here?.


None of which provide counters for subcaps.


Absolutely correct. Titans should not be countered by subcaps. Titans should be countered by caps.
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#97 - 2012-02-28 22:04:28 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


I know you have yet to provide that question with an answer. Mainly because there is none. A ship that invalidates everything but more of itself is harmfull to the game and it is fantastic news for everyone that there are finally getting delt with. Not so great for the people who rely compleatly upon them mind you but thats the price they pay for going for the FOTM.




I wonder if you've heard of something called a dread fleet, they're in the ship class between battleships and supercaps.


They are the absolute counter to tracking fit titans, and they're insurable so the cost upon loss is negligible.




But you already knew all that, you just want to ignore the facts since its counter productive to your argument.

if you had a titan in the untacklable era you'd have been the one trying to earnestly argue that people just needed a fleet of neuting bumping battleships as the proper counter and those scrubs wanting to tackle them were just jealous
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#98 - 2012-02-28 22:04:53 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:

Absolutely correct. Titans should not be countered by subcaps. Titans should be countered by caps.

titans are specifically designed to kill caps
Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
#99 - 2012-02-28 22:07:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Reilly Duvolle
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:

Absolutely correct. Titans should not be countered by subcaps. Titans should be countered by caps.

titans are specifically designed to kill caps


Like a battlecruiser is specifically designed to kill cruisers. A Falcon will still jam it.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#100 - 2012-02-28 22:12:29 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Reilly Duvolle wrote:

Absolutely correct. Titans should not be countered by subcaps. Titans should be countered by caps.

titans are specifically designed to kill caps


Like a battlecruiser is specifically designed to kill cruisres. But titans are more than that.


Spaceships, with the exception of certain exhumers and shuttles and such, are specifically designed to kill other spaceships.

Obvious point is obvious.

Titans cost so much more. What they are, however, is entirely subjective and thus the topic of the debate.

Titans should not be able to blap logi's. End of story.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom