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Want to join GoonWaffe? Well, this is my experience...
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lilol' me
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#221 - 2012-02-28 16:35:58 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
And I love posts from people who can't formulate convincing arguments, so they resort to millennia-old logical fallacies that even children can see through.


Wasnt even trying to form any argument, the intention was to state a fact. Which i think i clearly did. As intended..
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#222 - 2012-02-28 16:55:50 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
And I love posts from people who can't formulate convincing arguments, so they resort to millennia-old logical fallacies that even children can see through.


dude, Darth Dark Emperor, GO PLAY SWTOR nerd lol
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#223 - 2012-02-28 16:58:50 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
It was unenforceable, that's why it was removed. Incidents like this just demonstrated how unenforceable it was.

You've missed the whole point of the entire 11 pages, and, once again, yer dumb.


And you miss the point as a whole.

ToS 6:
You will follow the instructions of authorized personnel while in the EVE Online game world or using the EVE Online web site.

A CCP authorized employee put in the recruitement channel info that using the recruitement channel as a platform to find victims to scam is not allowed.
Someone ignored that and still did so.

The debate isn't if it's unenforceable. Someone willingly ignored an instruction and should suffer the consequences.
And yes CCP can make use of backlogs to check it out if this was the case indeed and the recruitement channel was used as a platform to find their victim.
Did the transgression occur while said rule was in place or not. Yes it occured with said rule in place.

Does changing the rule afterwards warrant there will be no compensation or repurcussion?

No it doesn't. Just as easy as it is to google about Goonswarm and their scam it is easy to find the rules and regulations in regards to the gameplay and forum useage for EVE-Online.

Measuring with several rulers to be easier on the one and less easy on someone else is something CCP should be very carefull with.
Favouritism isn't what EVE needs at the moment, not this long after the Jita riots. Their credibility is still recovering from that and as such their way to handle such occurences is watched under more scrutiny than normal.
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#224 - 2012-02-28 17:07:01 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
Someone willingly ignored an instruction and should suffer the consequences.


Prove it. You can't because it's unenforceable.

Write more words next time.

Also, yer dumb.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#225 - 2012-02-28 18:13:47 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
Darth Tickles wrote:
It was unenforceable, that's why it was removed. Incidents like this just demonstrated how unenforceable it was.

You've missed the whole point of the entire 11 pages, and, once again, yer dumb.


And you miss the point as a whole.

ToS 6:
You will follow the instructions of authorized personnel while in the EVE Online game world or using the EVE Online web site.

A CCP authorized employee put in the recruitement channel info that using the recruitement channel as a platform to find victims to scam is not allowed.
Someone ignored that and still did so.

The debate isn't if it's unenforceable. Someone willingly ignored an instruction and should suffer the consequences.
And yes CCP can make use of backlogs to check it out if this was the case indeed and the recruitement channel was used as a platform to find their victim.
Did the transgression occur while said rule was in place or not. Yes it occured with said rule in place.

Does changing the rule afterwards warrant there will be no compensation or repurcussion?

No it doesn't. Just as easy as it is to google about Goonswarm and their scam it is easy to find the rules and regulations in regards to the gameplay and forum useage for EVE-Online.

Measuring with several rulers to be easier on the one and less easy on someone else is something CCP should be very carefull with.
Favouritism isn't what EVE needs at the moment, not this long after the Jita riots. Their credibility is still recovering from that and as such their way to handle such occurences is watched under more scrutiny than normal.


You're still an idiot. CCP's privacy policy prevents them from revealing punitive actions, as they have stated in the past.

You have no ******* idea if they enforced the rule or not, so you're basically just being a stupid squeaky wheel at this point.

Do you know for a fact that nothing was done? Do you know for a fact if there were any consequences at all?

The obvious answer is obvious.

You continue to be an utter ****wit.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#226 - 2012-02-28 18:28:25 UTC
lilol' me wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
i have an endless appetite for the pain and humiliation of the stupid, so when i see mails like this in my inbox, it pleases me:

Quote:
INBOX
Remove Label

Hey Mittani i got a few things i would like to tell you so if you would please take the time to read it trugh i would be honored. I know you are a busy man so ill go straight to it.

About a Week agoe i was aproached by a corp member of you called Third Flower he was nice and friendly and told me about GoonWaffe and the many opotunitys if i were to apply and get acceptet into the corperation. he seemed nice and spoke very good for the Goons.

so after a few talks i desitet to try and apply i followed the instructions Third flower gave me and made the saftey deposit as instructet both for me 650mill and for my brother Ina Rawberry 500 mill in total 1.15 bill for me that was quite a bit of isk and would take me some time to earn that back in high sec, but i took the chance. After a days or so i could see my aplication were acceptet on the goonfleet site and tought yer that was nice. But then nothing happend and after 3-4 days i contactet Third flower again asking why nothing happend yet as the payment already were acceptet. He dosnt know and asks for help from a director thats where the man Testobjekt comes into the picture and it goes down hill from there. I know you got strict ruels and such and i totaly understand that, but he starts to question me with a wery offensive and angry aproach, and we come up with that i need to pay atleast 75% of all my assets in deposit for joining so in good heart and trush in this guy and third flower i start trying tog ather the 2,6 bill more he wants from me and my brother. it takes a few hrs and its ready.

But then somthing happends Third flower sends me a mail that i dont really pay atention to but later i get to know it contains the info of a 100 bill cargo from VFK to jita and the time of departure, that ofc is very clasafied info. and Testobjekt gets very mad and we are told that our aplications have been canceled and we are blacklistet from goons cus of Third flowers mistake. After a bit of talk again he agrees that we still have a chance of joining again but to do that we would be required to give the rest bit of assets we have including 2x t3's with subsystems. I talk it over with my bro and he agrees we still very much want to be a part of this and experience war on a scale we cant anywhere in the game so we agrees and call it a night after the transfer.
Then this morning i talk to Testobjekt again and he tells me its not enough and gives me a fine for a reason i dont know. The fine is 500 mill that i have to pay before 14.00 eve time and he tells me after that i can join, so i do my best but ends up short i use every last drop i have to try and make it and ends up with 250 mill and we discuss it and he tells me to pay it to him and after i join i get a new fine of 1bill.

Then downtime hits and afterwards he tells me its off and if i want a chance i need to get new 500 mill so the Gia have told him.

but after giving away ca 7.5 bill in assets i got no more and have to tell him i cant:

Thats pretty much it and im wondering if thats the way Goonwaffe do rip honest ppl off who wish to join their ranks and fight along side of them. Right now i feel ripped off and buttfucked was in good belife the hole way but was clearly desived. so would very much like to know if thats it thers no chance of Goonswarm for me ever and i will have to start all over again and spent years to build up what i had, or are there any chance i can get back what i gave in good belif to join your ranks or is everything gone for me

Really hope u took the time to read this

o7 Pilot Rave Terris


i think this is the op's alt



the awesome thing is you are the chair of the CSM..


Fixed.

Any player in any position of "having a say" who doesn't believe scamming is an inherent part of Eve doesn't deserve to be there.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#227 - 2012-02-28 18:30:49 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
A CCP authorized employee put in the recruitement channel info that using the recruitement channel as a platform to find victims to scam is not allowed.


The very next line of that MOTD stated that any deals finalised outside of the channel were the sole risk to bear of the victim.

So which contradictory statement must I adhere to? The first one? Alphabetical order? BODMAS?

This is why it was silly, and why it is gone.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#228 - 2012-02-28 18:35:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Killer Gandry wrote:
A CCP authorized employee put in the recruitement channel info that using the recruitement channel as a platform to find victims to scam is not allowed.


The very next line of that MOTD stated that any deals finalised outside of the channel were the sole risk to bear of the victim.

So which contradictory statement must I adhere to? The first one? Alphabetical order? BODMAS?

This is why it was silly, and why it is gone.


All irrelevant to Killer Gandry's bellyaching.

He's crying because, apparently, he doesn't know for a fact that somebody got a ban for this nor that anybody was or wasn't compensated.

What makes him think he's so special that he should get feedback on his tormentors' punishment (or even the OP's reimbursement) when nobody else in Eve ever has?

That is what he's fishing for, right? Acknowledgement? Hi Killer Gandry, we see you! You're obviously real!

And obviously a real idiot if you think CCP's going to acquiesce to your request in their public forum, going back on over eight years of privacy policies.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#229 - 2012-02-28 18:54:29 UTC
No worries, I petitioned it and I will escalate it if needed.

Breaking part of a rule is still breaking a rule.
I know certain entities in EVE look differently at that. It doesn't matter.

But then again how hard would those entities have cried if they had been on the receiving end of the stick?
I know we all know the answer to that one.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#230 - 2012-02-28 18:57:39 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
No worries, I petitioned it and I will escalate it if needed.

Breaking part of a rule is still breaking a rule.
I know certain entities in EVE look differently at that. It doesn't matter.

But then again how hard would those entities have cried if they had been on the receiving end of the stick?
I know we all know the answer to that one.



I really would like to know what you would deem worthy of an escalation, because you aren't going to get any kind of information other than "We have changed our scamming policy but we still don't violate the privacy policy due to advice from our team of lawyers."

I just wonder how many times you'll whack the escalate button TBFH.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#231 - 2012-02-28 20:14:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ladie Harlot
lilol' me wrote:
If they did contact you from rec channel then yes they are not allowed.


Nope, you're wrong. The MOTD was changed by a GM who didn't understand the actual rules. CCP has made it very clear that recruitment scamming is fine and so is finding targets in the Recruitment channel. The only thing you're not allowed to do is post a scam directly in the channel.

The erroneous MOTD stayed there as long as it did because nobody was dumb enough to actually try and enforce it until now. If you log in and check the MOTD now reflects what the rules have always been.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#232 - 2012-02-28 20:16:32 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
No worries, I petitioned it and I will escalate it if needed.


If you waste too much of the GMs time with frivolous complaints you can get banned. Now wouldn't that be funny...

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#233 - 2012-02-28 20:23:01 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Killer Gandry wrote:
No worries, I petitioned it and I will escalate it if needed.


If you waste too much of the GMs time with frivolous complaints you can get banned. Now wouldn't that be funny...


Posting to admit I shamelessly liked this post.

Funny barely begins to scratch the surface.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#234 - 2012-02-28 22:02:35 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Nope, you're wrong. The MOTD was changed by a GM who didn't understand the actual rules. CCP has made it very clear that recruitment scamming is fine and so is finding targets in the Recruitment channel. The only thing you're not allowed to do is post a scam directly in the channel.

The erroneous MOTD stayed there as long as it did because nobody was dumb enough to actually try and enforce it until now. If you log in and check the MOTD now reflects what the rules have always been.


Question : Was that MOTD in the Recruitement channel?
Answer : Yes.

Question : Dis it state that the recruitement channel was also not allowed to be used as a platform for recruitement scams?
Answer : Yes.

Question : Did the transgressor find his victim in the recruitement channel and as such has used the recruitement channel as platform to find his victim?
Answer : Yes.

Question : Was there another way to adress the issue of an unenforceable rule or even wrongly placed notification from an authorized person?
Answer : Yes.

Question : Even if the rule wasn't enforceable and even wrongly placed. Was there reason enough for eventual victims to assume they were save from recruitement scams, which found their initiation in the recruitement channel, due to said MOTD?
Answer : Yes.

Question : Is rule number 6 of the ToS clear enough to indicate that such notifications are to be handled as a directive placed by an authorized person and to be followed till clearly stated else and the unenforceable or wrongly placed rule is removed?
Answer : Yes.

Question : Does it warrant actions against the transgressor and/or a full compensation to the victim(s) while said directive was in place in the MOTD and as such were wrongfully under the impression they were free from recruitement scams from people either in or who found them in the reruitement channel?
Answer : If CCP wants to appear unbiased then yes. If any other answer is given then CCP can't claim being unbiased anymore and as such lost their credibility to cater to all players but should avert to clearly stipulate they cater more to a certain kind of gameplay.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#235 - 2012-02-28 22:05:49 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Nope, you're wrong. The MOTD was changed by a GM who didn't understand the actual rules. CCP has made it very clear that recruitment scamming is fine and so is finding targets in the Recruitment channel. The only thing you're not allowed to do is post a scam directly in the channel.

The erroneous MOTD stayed there as long as it did because nobody was dumb enough to actually try and enforce it until now. If you log in and check the MOTD now reflects what the rules have always been.


Question : Was that MOTD in the Recruitement channel?
Answer : Yes.

Question : Dis it state that the recruitement channel was also not allowed to be used as a platform for recruitement scams?
Answer : Yes.

Question : Did the transgressor find his victim in the recruitement channel and as such has used the recruitement channel as platform to find his victim?
Answer : Yes.

Question : Was there another way to adress the issue of an unenforceable rule or even wrongly placed notification from an authorized person?
Answer : Yes.

Question : Even if the rule wasn't enforceable and even wrongly placed. Was there reason enough for eventual victims to assume they were save from recruitement scams, which found their initiation in the recruitement channel, due to said MOTD?
Answer : Yes.

Question : Is rule number 6 of the ToS clear enough to indicate that such notifications are to be handled as a directive placed by an authorized person and to be followed till clearly stated else and the unenforceable or wrongly placed rule is removed?
Answer : Yes.

Question : Does it warrant actions against the transgressor and/or a full compensation to the victim(s) while said directive was in place in the MOTD and as such were wrongfully under the impression they were free from recruitement scams from people either in or who found them in the reruitement channel?
Answer : If CCP wants to appear unbiased then yes. If any other answer is given then CCP can't claim being unbiased anymore and as such lost their credibility to cater to all players but should avert to clearly stipulate they cater more to a certain kind of gameplay.



Irrelevant. They will never say "We banned them." Their response to your squawking will be "Thank you kindly."

Not only that but it's infitessimally unlikely they'd be banned at all since scamming is allowed in Eve.

Especially scamming whales who throw their wallets into the most advertised scam in space.

Caveat emptor!

Or as PT Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute!"

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#236 - 2012-02-28 22:10:15 UTC
Killer Gandry is still very, very bitter about being recruitment scammed, I see
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#237 - 2012-02-28 22:11:42 UTC
So if I go out to the street, take down the sign that says "Speed Limit 25 mph" and replace it with a sign that says "Speed Limit 100 mph" then the nice policeman won't pull me over when I tear through my neighborhood at 100 mph?

I really don't know how I can simplify this for you any further: The change to the MOTD in the recruitment channel that mentioned finding targets to scam was an error. It never reflected the actual terms of service or EULA.

But keep sending in those GM tickets...that has to be a boring job and I'm sure you're keeping them well entertained.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#238 - 2012-02-28 22:13:38 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Killer Gandry is still very, very bitter about being recruitment scammed, I see


He wasn't scammed. He failed to meet our stringent requirements for becoming a member.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#239 - 2012-02-28 22:15:50 UTC
Question : Did the transgressor find his victim in the recruitement channel and as such has used the recruitement channel as platform to find his victim?
Answer : Yes.

PROVE IT!
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#240 - 2012-02-28 22:17:57 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:

Question : Did the transgressor find his victim in the recruitement channel and as such has used the recruitement channel as platform to find his victim?
Answer : Yes.


wrong, moron

platform != tool

using the recruitment channel as a platform to scan would be posting in it
using it as a tool to find marks would not be using it as a platform