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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Planetary Interaction 2.0 - (Cities, tax, terraforming and beyond)

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Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#221 - 2011-12-21 02:38:13 UTC
tankus2 wrote:


To address the 'large mulltiples of small entities interacting with eachother', do you think that every npc in every system is taken into account all the time, especially if no player is in the local area, let alone system? and that's just rats! CCP are already proven masters of this sort of thing, keeping track of everything from the number of shells a dread or titan is carrying in Outer Ring to how much veldspar some poor sap has mined in Hek without there being a miscalculation.



No but entities like rats and aseroids are not dynamic, there a file in a database that is only needed if someone does something to it.

A building on the other hand is dynamic, it changes constantly without anyone needing to log in. Every detail will be updated at set intervals. Things need to be refernced, checked, updated all the time.

So while your rat or asteroid just sits on some harddisk somewhere, every building is eating into your processing resources on a constant basis as it 'evolves' overtime. The more buildings the more system resources you need, the more asteroids you just need more harddisk space.

Hopefully this explains things a little more clearly

/edit saw that Anno 2007 in the shop the other day but didn't really pay attention, I'm not sure what your point is there, yes it's probably pretty but I imagine not to the standard of a modern RPG FPS, the fact your system chugs running it would seem to support my first point.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#222 - 2011-12-21 21:39:45 UTC
Prof Alphane

Thanks for your insights.

I am however, of the naive state of mind to think that the technical overhead and strain on the server would be no more than the combined strain of outposts, towers and the existing PI mechanic rolled into 1 package.

An easy infrastructure solution would be to export PI to its own server and only actually be called up in the event that people go into planet views or log in on planets, thus erasing the need for 24/7 processing on the eve server. Almost like rats, but not quite.

Since Dust wont be running from the Eve server either, this seems like a viable option if this proposal were in fact to cause major technical headaches upon implementation or testing.

But I'm sure the design & Dev teams will be able to shed more light on the technical limitations of their hardware when they do a feasibility study on this idea.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#223 - 2011-12-21 22:39:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
The Assembly Hall version of PI 2.0 has been hosted here.

A topic has been made with the download link in the Assembly Hall.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#224 - 2011-12-22 01:58:22 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Prof Alphane

Thanks for your insights.

I am however, of the naive state of mind to think that the technical overhead and strain on the server would be no more than the combined strain of outposts, towers and the existing PI mechanic rolled into 1 package.

An easy infrastructure solution would be to export PI to its own server and only actually be called up in the event that people go into planet views or log in on planets, thus erasing the need for 24/7 processing on the eve server. Almost like rats, but not quite.

Since Dust wont be running from the Eve server either, this seems like a viable option if this proposal were in fact to cause major technical headaches upon implementation or testing.

But I'm sure the design & Dev teams will be able to shed more light on the technical limitations of their hardware when they do a feasibility study on this idea.



Fair enough.

In a way that is why I called it a 'projection' as well, it makes an excellent 'road map' of how PI might develop.

As I say I like the ideas, and hope CCP do devote more time to developing PI as ATM it's a quickly 'burnt out' mini game. You still get your income but there isn't much to do once you've waded through the massive number of options on what to produce and actually set your colonies running. It was all kind of disapointing IMO.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#225 - 2011-12-25 23:59:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
I read everything and I must say, that was about 2 hours well spent. Big smile

Some further suggestions / comments:

1. AFAIK Eve is supposed to run in "real time". So I find your growth rates a little off. 15% growth per downtime? Seriously? IMHO it would be more appropriate to have those growth rates on a "per month" base (still ridiculously high growth rate, but, hey, it's just a game) . Growing your cities should take much longer, but it would increase the immersion and give you a better feeling of accomplishment once you have created a metropolis.

2. Cooperation. I like this a lot. Like a second corp, you have to band together with people from other corps to keep the city running. Your corps may even be at war, you still have to work together - or find some backstabbing ways to kick them off the planet. This sounds like endless potential for fun and drama.

3. Taxes. I have no problems with the tax system you proposed in null or in WH space. But I don't think the empires would tolerate any individuals to collect any taxes from their citizens. (Lowsec is also still claimed by those empires). To make profit of your population I would suggest something different: your population is a market for civil goods that you can sell for profit.
The one thing that I felt was always wrong with Eve economy was that almost every item you could produce and sell was directly connected to warfare. You acquire weapons to claim space to get resources to build more weapons to defend this space to build even more weapons...etc etc etc.
It should be much more profitable to sell billions of softdrinks or deodorants to the populations of several planets than selling a few hundred autocannons to a handful of capsuleers. So your PI model could open the door to civilian industry, the size of the population and the general wealth of the colony would determine how many of your goods you could sell to them in a given time - and the supply of civil goods will have a positive effect on population growth and overall efficiency of the colony.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#226 - 2011-12-26 09:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
I read everything and I must say, that was about 2 hours well spent. Big smile

Some further suggestions / comments:

1. AFAIK Eve is supposed to run in "real time". So I find your growth rates a little off. 15% growth per downtime? Seriously? IMHO it would be more appropriate to have those growth rates on a "per month" base (still ridiculously high growth rate, but, hey, it's just a game) . Growing your cities should take much longer, but it would increase the immersion and give you a better feeling of accomplishment once you have created a metropolis.

2. Cooperation. I like this a lot. Like a second corp, you have to band together with people from other corps to keep the city running. Your corps may even be at war, you still have to work together - or find some backstabbing ways to kick them off the planet. This sounds like endless potential for fun and drama.

3. Taxes. I have no problems with the tax system you proposed in null or in WH space. But I don't think the empires would tolerate any individuals to collect any taxes from their citizens. (Lowsec is also still claimed by those empires). To make profit of your population I would suggest something different: your population is a market for civil goods that you can sell for profit.
The one thing that I felt was always wrong with Eve economy was that almost every item you could produce and sell was directly connected to warfare. You acquire weapons to claim space to get resources to build more weapons to defend this space to build even more weapons...etc etc etc.
It should be much more profitable to sell billions of softdrinks or deodorants to the populations of several planets than selling a few hundred autocannons to a handful of capsuleers. So your PI model could open the door to civilian industry, the size of the population and the general wealth of the colony would determine how many of your goods you could sell to them in a given time - and the supply of civil goods will have a positive effect on population growth and overall efficiency of the colony.


1) Bare in mind, the startinng point for all populations is the 500 settlers that comes with your command center. At an average increase of 55 - 90 settlers for the first few days/weeks (assuming you retain a 10% growth rate or more), it will take you ages to get somewhere meaningfull. Even at 100% tax rates, 50 000 isk a day is tantamount to a single mission from a lvl 1 agent each day.

2) I hope it will provide said drama and funzorz.

3) Also take into consideration, that before the players can collect any taxes from hi-sec/low-sec cities, the Empire will take their 50%/35%/25% cut. So your profit margins on tax up there isn't massive. Factor in operational costs on a daily basis and suddenly it would be like running a few havens a day and then losing ships in each one as you rat.

But I am hoping we can expand this economy system to non combat items as you say. The problem will be in creating demand for it. If we modify the fuel requirements for cities to include soft drinks, water, exotic dancers and what not, then we could accomplish this.

The Assembly Hall version of this topic has more detail than the few pages in this topic.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#227 - 2012-01-01 09:15:58 UTC
Bump for 2012 comments and feedback!

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Theta Eridani
The Destined
#228 - 2012-01-05 20:29:35 UTC
+1
tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#229 - 2012-01-06 22:09:03 UTC
Return this to the front page, pass go and collect 200 isk

Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#230 - 2012-01-13 20:01:42 UTC
Bump for moar feedback!

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#231 - 2012-02-03 05:53:15 UTC
Feb bump

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Kamuria
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#232 - 2012-02-03 11:06:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kamuria
I didn't read a thing, however i'm pretty sure your ideas would bring more micromanagement to PI and that would kill it for me.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#233 - 2012-02-03 14:36:02 UTC
Kamuria wrote:
I didn't read a thing, however i'm pretty sure your ideas would bring more micromanagement to PI and that would kill it for me.


That is why you fail young grasshopper.

This suggestion does not increase the amount of management or time investment needed to run PI beyond what it is now.

This suggestion will allow you to do PI exactly as you do it now if you do not wish to pursue a more in depth PI experience by setting up cities or expanding your networks to include other types..

It basically increases the varied PI experience while retaining the current time investment requirement and managerial overheads of PI.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Decus Revaen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#234 - 2012-02-03 22:01:55 UTC
One interesting possibility to think of, would be adding the ability to launch an entire asteroid at a planet's surface. This would be used to distract the ground-based weapons temporarily in order to allow to escape. An example of this would be a dreadnought pilot accidentally flew too close to the planet's atmosphere and is unable tank all the damage from the ground-based weapons, a nearby ship could launch an asteroid towards the planet in order to get the ground-based weapons to shot at the asteroid instead of dreadnought. This would allow a 3-5 second pause in damage being done to dreadnought allowing it to survive for longer. Of course this would require a capital industrial ship to hold the asteroid as well several miners to maneuver the asteroid into capital industrial ship's cargohold. Well, that is all for my idea.
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#235 - 2012-02-05 19:24:17 UTC
Will read this fully another time. I fully support the idea of PI being some kind of Sim City.

PI is currently so utterly dull, and planets should be a MUCH larger part of the game. The PI expansion was the one that made me quit originally, when I decided that CCP has finally stopped caring. Crucible brought me back, and changes as amazing as this would keep me playing.

Hell, in a perfect world PI would be a clone of 'Supreme Commander'. That universe would fit very well with EvE as well.

+1,000,000

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Klytior Am'jarhs
Amarrian Retribution
#236 - 2012-02-05 20:21:11 UTC
Great idea... Let's build it and test to see if it works
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#237 - 2012-02-08 21:31:26 UTC
I would LOVE to know if the Devs would give this ideas some serious consideration. As other people have said, this is what PI should have been like form the start. PI is currently a HEART-BREAKING waste of an opportunity. It's a lame and largely meaningless profession, which involves no interaction with other players, and is pitiful the face of all the potential amazing stuff PI could involve.

I imagine they're all busy fixing EvE right now, but would a Dev at least let us know if they are taking this ideas seriously for the future?

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#238 - 2012-02-16 03:47:15 UTC
what's this? PI threads are beginning to crop up and this sits back ten pages? frontpage naow!

Where the science gets done
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#239 - 2012-02-27 20:11:58 UTC
Bump

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Derth Ramir
Fight The Blob
#240 - 2012-02-28 05:12:03 UTC
Even though I will most likely never participate in PI this idea makes me **** my pants. Eve needs more ideas like this that make it the ultimate space game.


+1

Fight The Blob.