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Electorate manipulation, the emerging Goon tactic?

First post
Author
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#41 - 2012-02-27 11:44:15 UTC
Honestly, all political :stuff: is Electorate manipulation. It's not just the Goons who do it. It's all of the CSM7 candidates. It's republicans. It's democrats. Every move a politician makes whether its for an internet spaceship discussion-board chair or for a real-world governmental doo-hickey is trying to manipulate people to vote for him, work for him, etc etc.

This isn't a ~bad~ thing, it's just how politics work, how social dynamics works.

Trying to present it in a negative light and attribute it to the Goons is kind of silly.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#42 - 2012-02-27 11:53:07 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
guys guys guys, people voting in an election is a manipulation

(assuming you don't like them, and there's more of them than you)


Asking people to vote for someone you like is manipulation. Voting in an election is rigging.

Try and keep up.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#43 - 2012-02-27 13:12:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Killer Gandry
Malcanis wrote:

Should all players as part of the electorate be allowed to freely express their opinions for candidates as they prefer?


As long as they clearly state it's their opinion and don't state things as a fact unless they have absolute proof. Else you are very likely only slandering.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-02-27 16:17:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Honestly, all political :stuff: is Electorate manipulation. It's not just the Goons who do it. It's all of the CSM7 candidates. It's republicans. It's democrats. Every move a politician makes whether its for an internet spaceship discussion-board chair or for a real-world governmental doo-hickey is trying to manipulate people to vote for him, work for him, etc etc.

This isn't a ~bad~ thing, it's just how politics work, how social dynamics works.

Trying to present it in a negative light and attribute it to the Goons is kind of silly.


Except that we had forumlated some kind of common understanding of how this democratic process is supposed to work. It was/is kind of a common understanding we had all agreed on.

Goons and others alike all essentially shouting down calls previously in other threads to change the process because the importance of free voting rights and democratic freedom to choose your prefered candidate.

Trying to bring in campigning influences is largley irrelevant to the point I have been trying to make here. And yet it consistently seems to be thrown in due to a missunderstanding to the issue being made, despite my points to suggest that it isnt an issue.

This "agreed" understanding i think we share hasnt been corrupted (except for the potential hic-up that was identified and clarified above as not a problem).

So the important question then:

Do Goons still stand behind the freedom to exercise voting choice? As objections to these principles make me question this.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2012-02-27 16:20:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Malcanis wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
guys guys guys, people voting in an election is a manipulation

(assuming you don't like them, and there's more of them than you)


Asking people to vote for someone you like is manipulation. Voting in an election is rigging.

Try and keep up.


Word play is no substitute for actual definition and agreed understanding. I see voting as exercising choice.

Psychological manipulation is normally associated as "the devious management of some situation, especially for one’s own advantage". Voter education, campaign propoganda, debate and the demonstration of beliefs with respect to a candidates position whilst obviously not the most objective of methods is such a way as it has a clear defined goal in trying to win a electorates vote. This is normally an accepted part of an election process.

Vote rigging is normally associated with electoral fraud or "the illegally interfering in the counting of votes in an election". So I cannot agree that voting is rigging as an effective descriptor here.

My use of the word manipulation in this context is purely with repsect from preventing voters to exercise their rights freely in candidacy choice.

Most importantly however I would suggest re-reading my points, as I have gone out of my way to make a distinction between valid campaigning influences and dissrespecting our democratic process for which we had come to some kind of mutual understanding and agreement how this should be exercised.

(trying to avoid political theory debate)
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-02-27 20:44:52 UTC
This guy is all over Jita Park ever since he was outed as an altposter writing about 'Punktani', it's absolutely adorable.

Never stop posting, Grumpy Owly!

~hi~

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#47 - 2012-02-27 21:21:15 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
(trying to avoid political theory debate)

We've been over this...
ThisIsntMyMain wrote:
So you opt out of replying to Malcanis by saying you "don't want to discuss democratic political theory" - in a thread that you started, with the purpose of debating how you think a group of people are manipulating a political process i.e. discussing democratic political theory.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-02-27 21:21:41 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Asking people to vote for someone you like is manipulation. Voting in an election is rigging.

Try and keep up.


Sorry I can't hear you over the sound of your alliance mates ship's exploding.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2012-02-27 21:40:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
(trying to avoid political theory debate)

We've been over this...
ThisIsntMyMain wrote:
So you opt out of replying to Malcanis by saying you "don't want to discuss democratic political theory" - in a thread that you started, with the purpose of debating how you think a group of people are manipulating a political process i.e. discussing democratic political theory.



Yes we have as can be seen from a much earlier point that I made prior to all the "baiting".

Grumpy Owly wrote:
I personally dont want to get heavily embroiled in debating political theory for the CSM process. Firstly because moderators have asked us not to do so, and secondly I'm really not interested in that level of mental ************ about the philosophy of what democracy really means. I'd rather try and enjoy my time in EvE
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-02-27 22:11:55 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
This guy is all over Jita Park ever since he was outed as an altposter writing about 'Punktani', it's absolutely adorable.

Never stop posting, Grumpy Owly!



I honestly wasn't aware that propoganda label had stuck to anything.

But then I'm more interested in ideas and looking at a candidates solid manifesto that shows an actual associated support to something than just popularity contests as a foundation for campaigning. Blink

BTW, have you picked out a nice brown overcoat for your new "caretaker" role yet?
Groperson
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-02-27 22:43:22 UTC
Hey, how is the most people in eve history voting for the person they want as CSM chairman electoral manipulation?
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-02-27 22:46:14 UTC
Groperson wrote:
Hey, how is the most people in eve history voting for the person they want as CSM chairman electoral manipulation?


Since its not and you have missinterpreted the whole thread.
ThisIsntMyMain
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-02-28 01:25:03 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Groperson wrote:
Hey, how is the most people in eve history voting for the person they want as CSM chairman electoral manipulation?


Since its not and you have missinterpreted the whole thread.


ShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2012-02-28 01:44:24 UTC
So have we finally arrived at the bottom of the barrel for reasons to be mad about Goons?

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

ThisIsntMyMain
Doomheim
#55 - 2012-02-28 01:45:52 UTC
Don't be daft, there's no bottom to that barrel
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2012-02-28 01:49:19 UTC
I guess I should have specified "reasons grounded in reality".

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#57 - 2012-02-28 01:51:17 UTC
All this shrill goonie shitposting ITT:

It smacks of desperation to me.

What are you guys so afraid of, all of a sudden?

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2012-02-28 02:00:08 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
What are you guys so afraid of, all of a sudden?


Sunlight and fresh air.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#59 - 2012-02-28 02:20:37 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
What are you guys so afraid of, all of a sudden?


Sunlight and fresh air.


That goes without saying; Besides that, I mean.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Sidus Sarmiang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-02-28 02:37:15 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
I guess I should have specified "reasons grounded in reality".



This is about as grounded in reality as the idea that goons are trying to suffocate everyone by breathing all oxygen.