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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Blood and Faith

Author
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#41 - 2012-02-27 19:17:02 UTC
Blood Onyx wrote:
...perfect sense.

I'm glad you finally see it my way.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)

Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#42 - 2012-02-27 19:21:47 UTC
Crazy people ranting at crazy people as to who's imaginary friend is the right one. Well done, people.
Khazarn Areth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-02-27 19:25:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Khazarn Areth
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Crazy people ranting at crazy people as to who's imaginary friend is the right one. Well done, people.


In my experince many Sani Sabik do not follow a god, this includes The Blood Raiders, please understand the topic before attempting to contribute.

And would Mr Cresthill refrain from being childish.

Bloody Omir's coming back Monsters from the endless black Wading through a crimson flood Omir's come to drink your blood

Astera Zandraki
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
#44 - 2012-02-27 19:29:14 UTC
Odd, I was under the impression that the 'Red God' was pretty big with your religion, considering it is an offshoot of the traditional Imperial Faith.
Khazarn Areth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2012-02-27 19:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Khazarn Areth
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Odd, I was under the impression that the 'Red God' was pretty big with your religion, considering it is an offshoot of the traditional Imperial Faith.


Each Sani Sabik sect differs wildly whilst some do indeed worship this 'Red God' as an alternative to the Loyalist Amarrian 'God' most, especially The Blood Raiders, look to themselves for strength, sometimes with the help of personal/group rituals or blooding as a form of meditation on the path to enlightenment.

Bloody Omir's coming back Monsters from the endless black Wading through a crimson flood Omir's come to drink your blood

Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#46 - 2012-02-27 19:40:30 UTC
Khazarn Areth wrote:
Most Sani Sabik do not follow a god, .


The Sani Sabik are Anthroentheists. They "follow" the self-enshrined, egocentric, self-deification of personal godhood. Such a theology justifies whatever they want to do, however they want to do it.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)

Khazarn Areth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2012-02-27 19:50:24 UTC
Theobar Cresthill wrote:
Khazarn Areth wrote:
Most Sani Sabik do not follow a god, .


The Sani Sabik are Anthroentheists. They "follow" the self-enshrined, egocentric, self-deification of personal godhood. Such a theology justifies whatever they want to do, however they want to do it.


I do not "follow" myself, i am myself.

You on the otherhand are not yourself, you are a puppet Mr Cresthill, a puppet of an aged and dusty tome of written law that binds you in servitude to the Empire.

Prehaps you should look to yourself more for the answers rather than a book.

Bloody Omir's coming back Monsters from the endless black Wading through a crimson flood Omir's come to drink your blood

Blood Onyx
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-02-27 19:56:31 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Odd, I was under the impression that the 'Red God' was pretty big with your religion, considering it is an offshoot of the traditional Imperial Faith.


Common, but by no means universal. Remember, Ms Zandraki, that when people speak of Sani Sabik, they do not speak of a single, unified faith. Centuries of isolation and secrecy has ensured that there are dozens of different sects; the core may be similar, but to make sweeping generalisations beyond that core - the symbolic importance of blood, and the advancement of the self by will and strength - is dubiously accurate.

For my part, I acknowledge a God as the creator, but I do not worship him in the same way that an Amarrian might.
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#49 - 2012-02-27 20:01:26 UTC
Khazarn Areth wrote:
binds you in servitude to the Empire..

Yes, I am bound in service to the Empire.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#50 - 2012-02-27 20:12:41 UTC
Khazarn Areth wrote:
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Odd, I was under the impression that the 'Red God' was pretty big with your religion, considering it is an offshoot of the traditional Imperial Faith.


Each Sani Sabik sect differs wildly whilst some do indeed worship this 'Red God' as an alternative to the Loyalist Amarrian 'God' most, especially The Blood Raiders, look to themselves for strength, sometimes with the help of personal/group rituals or blooding as a form of meditation on the path to enlightenment.

It might have been better to have said "many Sabik" instead of "most". Given the very large number of different sects, I would wager it rather difficult for any one person to know exactly what the differences are between all of them - even something as binary as whether they follow a god or not.


Rodj Blake wrote:
Blood Onyx wrote:
A Sabik acts on their own beliefs, but does not presume to evangelise or consider themselves to be above all reproach.


You've clearly never encountered the same self-proclaimed Sani Sabik cultists as I have then...

And I could say much the same to you, Admiral. In my several years as a pilot, I have met and interacted with a large variety of people from all walks of life, including a sizable number who identified themselves as Sabik, on both sides of this line. One or two particularly loud voices in a crowd are not the same as the entire crowd. For lack of a better example, Revan Neferis does not represent all Sani Sabik, just as you do not represent all "Faithful" Amarrians.

Indeed, this "quality" of presuming to evangelise or consider oneself above all reproach is not a trait unique to the Sabik. It is extremely common in capsuleers of all nationalities and loyalties, particularly including those who identify as loyal to the Empire. Boiled down without all the little details getting in the way, the difference between the Sani Sabik and Amarrian faiths, at its very core, is that one group's book says X and the other group's book says Y. Nothing more, nothing less. It's like bickering over differences in spelling or grammar between dialects of a language.


Theobar Cresthill wrote:

Yes, I am bound in service to the Empire.

I get the feeling I'm voicing the unspoken sentiments of a number of people who frequent the IGS when I say that it's a pity that that service hasn't also bound your mouth shut.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#51 - 2012-02-27 20:16:54 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
I get the feeling I'm voicing the unspoken sentiments of a number of people who frequent the IGS when I say that it's a pity that that service hasn't also bound your mouth shut.


I await all your sentiments with bated breath.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)

Khazarn Areth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-02-27 20:49:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Khazarn Areth
Morwen Lagann wrote:

It might have been better to have said "many Sabik" instead of "most". Given the very large number of different sects, I would wager it rather difficult for any one person to know exactly what the differences are between all of them - even something as binary as whether they follow a god or not.


Indeed, its would be near impossible to categorise and list every Sani Sabik sect/group/cult, i am mearly speaking from experience and will ammend my previous statement to include this.

Thank you for your input Ms Lagann.

Bloody Omir's coming back Monsters from the endless black Wading through a crimson flood Omir's come to drink your blood

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#53 - 2012-02-27 22:36:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Hm. Sani Sabik religious practices are rather... unconventional, and downright abhorrent when they victimize innocent and unwilling subjects. They are no better than the Amarr practice of "enslaving you for your own good". That said, Areth, if I find myself in your vicinity, do not expect friendliness.

That said, do all Sani Sabik sects ascribe to forced blood sacrifice? Edit: I should clarify: while all Sani Sabik rely on blood in some manner or another, how do other sects go about it?

Also, does consuming blood have an effect on intelligence and coherence? Followers of the vanilla Amarr faith seem to me mouthbreathers far more often.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Khazarn Areth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2012-02-27 22:48:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Khazarn Areth
Petrus Blackshell wrote:


That said, do all Sani Sabik sects ascribe to forced blood sacrifice? Edit: I should clarify: while all Sani Sabik rely on blood in some manner or another, how do other sects go about it?

Also, does consuming blood have an effect on intelligence and coherence? Followers of the vanilla Amarr faith seem to me mouthbreathers far more often.


I wouldnt know how all sects go about it, some have been known engage in a simple blooding ritual where they share a few drops apon an alter before meditation, there is one sect i know of in Gallente space that activly shares the blood of the coven between members wheras myself and fellow Covenant members will happily enlighten those who cross our path with the use of hallowed blooding methods in which we take all the captures blood slowly, to make them whole at last.

Blood is used as it is a symbol of life, strength and power as to affecting intellegence and coherence in my case it is a yes i find the taste and smell relaxes me along the path to complete enlightenment, though i have had dealings in the past with a null sec Sabik cult that laced the ritual blood with several different narcotics to, in their words, "Delve deeper into their mind".

To ask of the Sani Sabik faith is to receive many different answers depending on whom you speak to but i hope i have answered some of your questions.

Bloody Omir's coming back Monsters from the endless black Wading through a crimson flood Omir's come to drink your blood

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#55 - 2012-02-27 22:54:06 UTC
Indeed you have. It sounds like some Sabik practices may actually be inspired by Matari tribal rituals. I learned something new today, I suppose.

Now back to our regular broadcast of Amarr fundamentalists shouting "Heretic!!" at the top of their lungs.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Blood Onyx
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2012-02-27 23:39:07 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Indeed you have. It sounds like some Sabik practices may actually be inspired by Matari tribal rituals. I learned something new today, I suppose.

Now back to our regular broadcast of Amarr fundamentalists shouting "Heretic!!" at the top of their lungs.


Not at all unlikely. One might go so far as to say probable. It is the nature of a scattered religion to acquire the traits of others that appear to be compatible and inspiring.

For my part, almost all blood rites I have undertaken have been between willing participants, and although rather more than a few drops were involved, there were no fatalities. Those one or two rites using unwilling participants were carried out in the spirit of victory over an enemy; if one is to forcibly take the blood of an individual, it should have some significance and meaning, not a soul picked at random from a crowd. The vast majority of the universe does not have our luxury of returning from death; to take a life is a sacred act, and should be treated as such - that is, with respect and consideration.
Boma Airaken
Perkone
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-02-28 05:41:36 UTC
Excellent opportunity for research, and it looks like I am done with mine. Some findings:

There is absolutely no difference between the Blood Raiders and the Sani Sabik, they are effectively, at least spiritually and traditionally, one in the same.

Any references to a deity, be it a "Red God" or otherwise, is basically just a cult within a cult. Neither Blood Raiders nor the Sani Sabik at large practice any sort of deism, it is more akin to tribal witchcraft.

There is no actual faith involved, it is essentially superstition mixed the idea that a man can be better than another man.

The picture is much clearer to me now. Thanks to all who participated.

Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2012-02-28 06:43:19 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Indeed you have. It sounds like some Sabik practices may actually be inspired by Matari tribal rituals. I learned something new today, I suppose.

Now back to our regular broadcast of Amarr fundamentalists shouting "Heretic!!" at the top of their lungs.



Such is the case between more belief systems than many people realize, and it is of constant annoyance to radical and militant followers of these varying faiths that they actually have more in common in ritual and belief than they would care to admit. But of course, as the saying goes, the devil is in the details.
Blood Onyx
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-02-28 07:46:20 UTC
Boma Airaken wrote:
Excellent opportunity for research, and it looks like I am done with mine. Some findings:

There is absolutely no difference between the Blood Raiders and the Sani Sabik, they are effectively, at least spiritually and traditionally, one in the same.

Any references to a deity, be it a "Red God" or otherwise, is basically just a cult within a cult. Neither Blood Raiders nor the Sani Sabik at large practice any sort of deism, it is more akin to tribal witchcraft.

There is no actual faith involved, it is essentially superstition mixed the idea that a man can be better than another man.

The picture is much clearer to me now. Thanks to all who participated.



As Ms Fehrnah says, the devil is in the details. The discussion thus far has been mainly restricted to the shared core of Sani Sabik. Generalisation is a dangerous game.

But to some extent at least, you are correct.
Boma Airaken
Perkone
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-02-28 10:57:03 UTC
Frankly I think the generalization that the Sani Sabik are godless heathens is pretty safe.