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Need manufacturing advice
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Zaquaz
Haven 9 Industrial Corporation
#1 - 2012-02-27 11:27:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zaquaz
Hello.

I've been a miner for some time now and i'm now looking to venture into crafting.
I have read up on the basics and mechanics of the craft, but I don't know which item(s) to craft for convenient profit.
I'm looking to use all 10 slots with a POS, and using Jita for buying and selling.

Any advice is appreciated!
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#2 - 2012-02-27 12:04:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
I wouldn't manufacture at a pos. Just use normal stations.

Buying and selling from Jita will require hauling capabilities. Stuff that you can haul in an industrial probably won't get you much profit. So look at getting a freighter if you don't have one already.

On making the best profit, no one is going to tell you upfront. Plus, they did their homework, why can't you? Too many items in game to look at and when someone finds an it that works for them, they won't give it up easily. Your entry into the market for that item cuts into their profits. It also depends on market fluctuations and your bpo collection.

But, there are tools out there that can help. Mine is linked in my signature. If you are just starting, look into making T1 ammo.

Hope that helps.

Edit: oh don't call it 'crafting'...it will just earn you flames and insults for being a WoW kid. Plus it's nothing like crafting anyway.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-02-27 12:36:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffi Flaffi
like the poster beforehand said.

In addition to this you better should really do your homework yourself, because this will generate more profit at the end of the day. Of course I will not tell with which products I make plenty of ISK and other's wont do as well. All I and they could tell you are standard answers, which you can find in the internet via google as well. But this will not make you a rich man and it would be more profitable to invest your time and Money in mining instead of producing 3-5% margin stuff at a POS! Your costs for POS fuel may lower that margin further!

You have to think about following cost factors, which lower your profit and you gain more ISK by just continue mining ore:

1) POS buying costs and fuel costs

2) Hauling costs (i.e. the time you need to do transport work instead of being in the belt and mine more ore for direct profit) for minerals to POS & products to Jita

3) Production slot costs (in case you produce at stations. They are small, but they exist and if you want to lower them you have to increase your standing and this will need you to do mission running, i.e. no time where you do mine ore)

4) BPO / BPC costs

5) Research costs (either doing it by yourself or buy researched BPOs)

6) Trading Fees (depending if you sold your minerals before directly or via sales order)

Edit: It really will take a lot of time until production may pay out for you compared to just continue mining. You have to consider this! Mining is easy! Production means much more work for you and often binds a lot ISK in assets, which you could use otherwise!

Just for example: You could theoretically generate 8-15B ISK per year from a single Drake BPO if you producer 24/7 and if you keep your orders always up to date and reach good prices. But for this job you would need rougly:


- 600M ISK for a well researched BPO
- 1.3B ISK for a freighter (inkl. skills) - you need this ship to haul that much Drakes / Minerals and you really will spend a lot of time just doing hauler jobs!
- 2 times 500M - 1.5B ISK in raw materials, depending on how long you want to do a production run (1.5B is for approx. 1 week continueing production in station) as you seldomly can mine that much ore with a single miner! you need it 2 times, because you can't expect your Drakes to be sold immediately at reasonable prices, so you need a buffer again!

This is just an example to show you about which dimensions we speak and Drake is a standard product! Let's estimate you want to produce the more profitable capital ships and we only speak about above ISK just for the BPOs.

Using items, which costs a lot less (shuttles, T1 ammo, etc.) are easy to produce, easy to find, easy to finance. But don't expect money like from a Drake!
Whiteknight03
Trilon Industries and Exploration
#4 - 2012-02-27 12:58:02 UTC
POS provides you a 25% increase in profit over a given period of time. However, if you are still at the stage where you are asking others what to "craft" you are not ready for a POS yet.

First off, google. Search for information. There are plenty of guides, ideas, concepts, ect. Don't ever ask for "What should I build?" Any manufacturer with a brain will tell you to **** off. Figuring out what to build is your job in crafting. Use Excel to find what is profitable.
Minerals you mine are not free.

Now for some steps. You're not going to be selling T1 things at Jita for a profit starting out. Find a region a bit away from Jita, moderate population, with plenty of level 4 missions. Look what sells well. Calculate if it's profitable for you to make. Make sure your Production Efficiency is at 4 or 5. Voila.
Ammo is usually a decent place to start.
Zaquaz
Haven 9 Industrial Corporation
#5 - 2012-02-27 13:16:24 UTC
Thanks for all the replies, they are very helpful.
I do realize that people won't reveal their secrets, in I have done some research and calculations using sites and tools, and have found an item to start with that should bring some profit at least. I just don't know if it actually will work, but I guess I have to find out by trying.

I am aware that you require a big capital to start major production, and that I must start smaller.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#6 - 2012-02-27 13:21:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
People won't tell you what is profitable to make, because:

A: If they tell you, you start making it, along with other people.
B: It changes. Especially if other people start, because it's profitable.

More people making stuff = razor thin margins.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Velicitia
XS Tech
#7 - 2012-02-27 13:41:46 UTC
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:
Let's estimate you want to produce the more profitable capital ships and we only speak about above ISK just for the BPOs.


note that cap ships don't exactly have a big margin ... and require A LOT of ISK tied up in minerals for a long time.

Freighters (the least BPO intensive) require 4-6 billion ISK in parts BPOs, plus a billion per freighter. Assuming a fairly researched set of BPOs ... you're looking (at prices from weekend before last) at having approximately 950m ISK tied up in minerals for 1-2 weeks before you can even bring the ship to market. Then you're only selling it for ... maybe 1.1 bil (eve-central is misbehaving atm...Sad)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Whiteknight03
Trilon Industries and Exploration
#8 - 2012-02-27 15:00:59 UTC
Zaquaz wrote:
Thanks for all the replies, they are very helpful.
I do realize that people won't reveal their secrets, in I have done some research and calculations using sites and tools, and have found an item to start with that should bring some profit at least. I just don't know if it actually will work, but I guess I have to find out by trying.

I am aware that you require a big capital to start major production, and that I must start smaller.


Actually, it doesn't take that much capital to start producing on one character/10 lines for a good profit. Modules, Ammo, Frigates, Cruisers and Drones should all cost less than 10 mil per unit, T1. A POS does require a good amount of initial investment, and is somewhat necessary for Invention/T2 production, unless you buy the BPC's you need.

If your spreadsheet is free of errors, and telling you an item should make a profit, the only thing that can then make it not profitable to produce is if demand is too low. Check where you want to sell and see how many units are being bought/sold. Also, consider whether the item is something lots of people use/lose on a regular basis.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#9 - 2012-02-27 15:07:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Won't tell you what's great, but will give an example of what NOT to make:

Whatever you do, don't make T2 Transports of any race.

The T2 BPO owners have theirs researched down to nothing, and can undercut any price. For all the time, trouble, and hauling, one 100,000,000 Crane sale, for example, will net you all of 5,000,000 IF you are lucky.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#10 - 2012-02-27 15:10:43 UTC
use a regular station's manufacturing slots. Run some missions with them to get the install costs down a bit. If you find you're able to sell everything you make, ship it fast enough, and keep your manufacturing slots running constantly, then and ONLY then should you see if adding a pos will increase your profit per month to be worth the headache and risk.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#11 - 2012-02-27 15:17:25 UTC
Most important thing to do when making stuff.

Run the numbers. If it's just T1, then a blueprint calculator is most of what you need. If it's T2, you'll want to play with the datacore costs and percentages too.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-02-27 19:22:20 UTC
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:
like the poster beforehand said.

In addition to this you better should really do your homework yourself, because this will generate more profit at the end of the day. Of course I will not tell with which products I make plenty of ISK and other's wont do as well. All I and they could tell you are standard answers, which you can find in the internet via google as well. But this will not make you a rich man and it would be more profitable to invest your time and Money in mining instead of producing 3-5% margin stuff at a POS! Your costs for POS fuel may lower that margin further!

You have to think about following cost factors, which lower your profit and you gain more ISK by just continue mining ore:

1) POS buying costs and fuel costs

2) Hauling costs (i.e. the time you need to do transport work instead of being in the belt and mine more ore for direct profit) for minerals to POS & products to Jita

3) Production slot costs (in case you produce at stations. They are small, but they exist and if you want to lower them you have to increase your standing and this will need you to do mission running, i.e. no time where you do mine ore)

4) BPO / BPC costs

5) Research costs (either doing it by yourself or buy researched BPOs)

6) Trading Fees (depending if you sold your minerals before directly or via sales order)

Edit: It really will take a lot of time until production may pay out for you compared to just continue mining. You have to consider this! Mining is easy! Production means much more work for you and often binds a lot ISK in assets, which you could use otherwise!

Just for example: You could theoretically generate 8-15B ISK per year from a single Drake BPO if you producer 24/7 and if you keep your orders always up to date and reach good prices. But for this job you would need rougly:


- 600M ISK for a well researched BPO
- 1.3B ISK for a freighter (inkl. skills) - you need this ship to haul that much Drakes / Minerals and you really will spend a lot of time just doing hauler jobs!
- 2 times 500M - 1.5B ISK in raw materials, depending on how long you want to do a production run (1.5B is for approx. 1 week continueing production in station) as you seldomly can mine that much ore with a single miner! you need it 2 times, because you can't expect your Drakes to be sold immediately at reasonable prices, so you need a buffer again!

This is just an example to show you about which dimensions we speak and Drake is a standard product! Let's estimate you want to produce the more profitable capital ships and we only speak about above ISK just for the BPOs.

Using items, which costs a lot less (shuttles, T1 ammo, etc.) are easy to produce, easy to find, easy to finance. But don't expect money like from a Drake!


Last I checked drakes were almost unprofitable to make. Keep in mind that some items, depending on your skills and research level on your BPO will actually sell for less than your minerals. Don't make those. You're better off selling your minerals and making nothing than making those. Also, you don't further depress those markets.

There are plenty of T1 items you can make for a meager profit. Some you will always be able to make a profit on like R.A.M. They're used in t2 production and they take way too long to manufacture compared to the rate at which they're used up. (Though you'd pretty much have to sell in Jita to be sure you can unload large volumes.)

Starting out you could look for items that take way too long to make for the pros to waste their time making them. the benefit of this is you won't have as much competition in the .01 ISK game and you should be able to make money even with non-maxed skills. Ammo works too. Though in that case your best bet is selling it at a mission hub where you can also earn a premium based on that. By that token, anything mission runners are likely consume might sell well there.

The other thing to watch out for (depending on how big your starting capital is): some things look too good to be true. This makes a lot of people rush in and you spend a lot of fighting the .01 ISK wars. Case in point, some people spiked POS structure prices about two weeks ago. Things that cost 3M and 2.5 hours to make were going for close to 7M, which is an astronomical profit. Of course, once everyone started unloading their stocks prices crashed back to earth and selling those things is a giant pain. I got burned having started before the spike. Sure I made 20-30M extra selling at inflated prices, but now I have way more competition in a market that should have been a relatively steady quiet profit stream even though prices crashed back down. The worst, is when I have 80M or more in stock that won't sell, that money does nothing for me.

I think one of my other alts has like 500M in sales orders and about 50M in cash on hand. That's not a great situation to be in. If it gets to the point where you can't afford to keep all your lines rolling that's really bad.
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#13 - 2012-02-28 16:42:45 UTC
Towers run on 'full power' since the introduction of fuel blocks so if you have a high sec research POS and have spare CPU/Powergrid it could make sense to add some manufacturing capacity to your POS. Just an afterthought. Smile
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#14 - 2012-02-28 17:07:43 UTC
if you were to, say, run a gallente small tower, with two advanced labs (for copy slots), you could throw in an ammo array, a component array and an equipment array, without straining the cpu.

That's be 10 slots for components like RAM and other t2 parts (and fuel blocks), 6 slots for modules, and 5 slots for ammo.

All running with a 0.75 time multiplier. Sure, you're paying for the tower to stay up, but the more slots you can keep active, the 'cheaper' each slot is.

A small tower costs about 170k an hour or so (depending on where you're getting your fuel blocks from)

6 copy slots. 4 invention slots. 4 ME slots. 21 manufacture slots. so that's 31 slots you can keep in constant use (invention is hard to keep in constant use. Ammo and module research times are low). Hourly cost on each of 5,483. or around 4113, adjusted for the 0.75 modifier.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Krupper
Carnassial Cuspids
#15 - 2012-03-01 11:29:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Krupper
It seems like the other posters have answered your questions on basic manufacturing but if you're looking for specific items advice feel free to convo Chin Upson ingame or send him an EVEMail. We'll let you know what items we want produced and buy your goods at  a higher price than Jita buy orders. It may be possible to even provide you with minerals and BPCs. We can provide hauling.

That was a bit of shameless corp promotion but my advice to you is: if you don't know what to produce join an industrial corp or get into business with a regular group of people.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#16 - 2012-03-01 15:26:12 UTC
Celgar Thurn wrote:
Towers run on 'full power' since the introduction of fuel blocks so if you have a high sec research POS and have spare CPU/Powergrid it could make sense to add some manufacturing capacity to your POS. Just an afterthought. Smile


Yup. I added an Array to make POS FUEL specifically for itself since they use so much more fuel now. Pretty much a requirement Lol

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#17 - 2012-03-01 15:55:06 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Celgar Thurn wrote:
Towers run on 'full power' since the introduction of fuel blocks so if you have a high sec research POS and have spare CPU/Powergrid it could make sense to add some manufacturing capacity to your POS. Just an afterthought. Smile


Yup. I added an Array to make POS FUEL specifically for itself since they use so much more fuel now. Pretty much a requirement Lol



Run it for about a day and a half a month, right? For a large tower.

1 run per hour of uptime = 24 runs for a day = 720 runs a month = 720*180 (3 minutes for a properly researched bpo, in an array) = 129600 seconds. or 1.5 days.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Skorpynekomimi
#18 - 2012-03-01 18:54:11 UTC
- Start with ammo. Buy a BPO, and set it to research ME to a good way. I set mine to 50, because I make it in large quantities.
- Buy a pack of BPCs off contracts with a decent ME/PE level, and produce from those until your BPO spits out, then produce off that.

- Make a spreadsheet, to calculate the difference between selling the minerals on the market and making stuff from them. Include all the taxes and fees.
- Ammo will happily make a few % above minerals. You can turn a profit buying minerals off sell orders, manufacturing, and selling on another order.

- When you have a good bit of capital built up, buy more BPOs. Either of stuff to produce, or just run off maximum amounts of max-run copies and sell on contracts.

Economic PVP
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#19 - 2012-03-01 22:10:06 UTC
To eyeball good MEs and if it's worth making stuff

[shameless promotion]
Try my blueprint calculator. It uses sell order prices in jita. Doesn't pay attention to fees and the like.
[/shameless promotion]

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-03-01 22:20:34 UTC
Instead of trying to start out with learning all the ins and outs of selling in Jita / other market hubs what you should do instead is find out what your corporation or alliance needs. This will give you the chance to focus on the manufacturing / research side of things and will give you a clear idea on what to start manufacturing.


Instead of trying to figure out how markets work (jita markets as well), logistics of hauling / transports, and all aspects of manufacturing you would be better off simply focusing on the manufacturing side. Discuss with your corp / alliance what they need, how often and at what prices.

Next get yourself BPO's of the items your orders you will need to start fulfilling. If you do not have access to a POS you will most likely be better off buying pre-researched BPO's. This will cost you a premium but will save you weeks or even months in researching them.

Once you have some consistent orders with your corp/alliance you should start getting a better understanding of all the different aspects of research and manufacturing. You'll make a number of mistakes but in the end you will come out far more educated and ready to start dealing with markets/marketing researching, etc.

After a few weeks of this you will have the ability to get a nice collection of perfect bpo's, all the skills and knowledge to start selling in markets instead of just your corp. At this point you can start looking into how you plan on making money (buying ore, mining ore, buying low, selling high, etc).

Don't try to overwhelm yourself with trying to learn everything at once. It will end up costing you alot of isk, cost you a few ships (trying to transport), give you a bunch of inventory you can't get rid of and generally make you hate marketing / manufacturing.