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New dev blog: Introducing Team Avatar – the keymasters of bipedal gameplay

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Nathanien Indoril
Creation and Extraction
#241 - 2012-02-26 15:54:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Nathanien Indoril
So... what to do with WiS...

Stick to the plan... release Bars, a Corp-Office or other multiplayer etablishment...
Put some minigames in it... and a Holo-Table, where people fly in (instanced) space and are able to shoot at each other. Like a duel-room. You win nothing, and you lose nothing... just training or something like that.
Plus a jukebox with fancy music, and the opportunity to get drunk

et voilá: 100% optional content for WiS.
Tanaka Aiko
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#242 - 2012-02-26 16:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Aiko
just saw this :
Seleene wrote:
As a side note, to me, this was one of the great tragedies of Incarna; especially after having played through several classes in SWTOR, just imagine what EVE would be like if your introduction to EVE was done with proper NPC avatars guiding you, explaining the history of the universe, your race or that Kestrel you just bought. CCP spent five-plus years working on that stuff and.... okay, gonna stop now before I super rage. The point is, if done right, it could lend quite a lot to the NPE.

it's so obvious i never though about it Shocked

i was thinking about watching your crew at the begining of this topic, but didn't had much idea of what they could do... well it's simple ; make them talk about their history, their race, the region where they are born, the events of the lore they lived... things like that.
Traidir
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#243 - 2012-02-26 16:37:52 UTC
Player Mission Agents

Players would be able to join "Deadspace Commissions Offices" in stations, acting as agents vending missions for a faction. In addition to the typical combat type missions we've seen in the past, player mission agents would be responsible for setting up the whole mission system. No longer would deadspace pockets simply "appear out of nowhere", player agents would commission their design, construction, and staffing through a build-a-city-in-space-mini-game, like PI (only less clicking please).

The building mini-game would require multiple players coordinating over a "conference table" environment. Using a budget handed to them by the station faction, qualified player mission agents would work together to design deadspace complexes that fit various faction needs (larger budgets and more difficult complexes would require higher faction standings). Some of the needs a faction might have for a complex are: surveillance coverage, quick reaction force garrison, shipyards (and access to the materials required for construction), communications infrastructure, refinery arrays, star gate resonance nodes (for private gates), unique research conditions (such as specific radiation levels or special, system-specific anomalies), and potentially much more (the system can easily start simple and add new types with later iterations). The diversity of skills required to do all of these things simultaneously would typically require (and generally make desirable) coordination from multiple players in order to meet the design spec "quotas" for each deadspace complex.

Once planned and a location chosen, player agents could commission capsuleers to deliver the parts and staff to the build platforms. Once built, these little towns in space can function as full fledged mission deadspace pockets and be flown through, blown up, captured, and abandoned if not funded. Thus, a whole mission ecosystem in space is created along side the social ecosystem in station.

This introduces the opportunity to "lobby" player agents for new complexes in a system. Bribes, back-room-deals, and black-market-complexes all become a possibility.

Additionally, the number of complexes already in existence in a system could influence players' abilities to add new complexes, generating reasons for strife. For instance, an Ammarian faction has set up mining complexes throughout System A. A Minmatar faction (or even a rival Holder faction) wants to build its own mining complex but all the good nodes are taken. Player agents would need to commission capsuleers to destroy or capture the Amarian complexes to make room in the system, just like many existing deadspace missions.

Underground pirates versions of these "Deadspace Commissioning Offices" may even pop up in the various seedy bars and pubs of the station. Offering an explanation as to how pirate complexes keep popping up (aside from the usual "capture the enemy complex" method). There's a potential here for another ecosystem entirely in which the local station "police force" attempts to catch these criminals in their dealings.

Finally, the semi-permanent status of these complexes would also tie into the exploration system. The complexes could all be scanned down and "hull mined" for their valuables (at the cost of faction of course).

P.S.
To address the question of "what does this have to do with Walking in Stations?" The building process is very faction oriented and solar system specific. Because of this it makes little sense for people to be able to do something like this from their ship (much like Customs Offices being accessible only if you're in system with them). Thus, it makes more sense for the management tools for this type of thing to be in exclusively in stations. The economic and interpersonal dynamics of the mini-game would have to drive social interaction from there.
Traidir
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#244 - 2012-02-26 18:43:47 UTC
Brawling Ecosystem

I've heard a lot of posts mention the possibility of brawling in stations. Brawling would be a non-lethal, non-serious form of in station combat, mostly for fun but also for airing/resolving disagreements. Indeed, it seems to me that at least one bloodline/race would have such activities as matter of national pride: the Brutor tribe. Thus, one way to introduce a "brawling ecosystem" that can later be extended to all parts of the "bipedal gameplay" is to introduce the "Fight Pub."

When envisioning the "Fight Pub", think karaoke bar but with combat instead of singing. Drinks would be a must along with a central stage where the fights take place. Gambling would be optional, and audience participation would be expected. Only two combatants at a time would be allowed "on stage" and the winner would proceed to fight newcomers from the audience until he loses or gets bored or has to leave for whatever reason. Matches would be quick and simple and there would be ample throughput of challengers whilst everyone else watches.

The pub environment would allow the devs to build in a "maximum capacity" to the events by limiting the size of the room. This would keep things from getting too busy in each pub and allow the possibility of instancing (so we don't fry our GPUs trying to load 400 audience members). This is not to say everyone can't be watching on monitors from their Captain's Quarters or on the "big screens" in the station promenade.

The dynamics of the fighting system could start as simple as the 3 main boxing punches and high and low target areas. Later iterations could add new attacks and styles of combat such as grappling/wrestling, kicking, weapons, kung fu, ect. Also, The "muscularity"/"weight" of the characters (as determined on character creation) could be used to determine the "stats" of the combatant: with "muscular" types having lots of power but low speed, "fat" types having extra "hit points" and being able to absorb more damage (again in exchange for speed), and the "lighter" builds having speed and stamina with reduced power. All that aside, the primary factor in victory should really be player skill. Also, don't forget the importance of movement in combat: there should be some "skirmish" dynamics as well. The non-serious nature of these fights means that the "pace" of combat can be quite slow, well within the 1 second tick time of the greater Eve environment. There's even a griefing dynamic with the gambling aspect, since players can throw fights for a profit.

In time, after a bit of vetting/balancing, "fighting" could be ported outside the pubs to Walking in Stations as a whole. Mostly, it's about having some quick fun, and it should prove a very nice segue into social interaction.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#245 - 2012-02-26 19:00:00 UTC
Your actions as a pilot can affect the world of eve that other people play in either positively or negatively.


If you actions as a biped on a station can do the same, the CQ will ultimately be embraced, if not then meh.


Blog on this, please.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Ryunosuke Kusanagi
#246 - 2012-02-26 20:48:30 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:

@Bloodpetal - Not sure I approve of the idea of F2P eve, how does it fit into eve lore vs character/capsuleer creation? Secondly, you suggest going from F2P to sub, would you suggest the other way around, from sub to F2P (which would make NO sense imo).


It actually does make perfect sense.

PLEX = Pilots License Extension Program..

No PLEX = No License = No Flying.

You can be a capsuleer and not be able to fly, and vice versa.

As a trial player, you would start as a capsuleer able to fly, when your trial ends you can walk around stations and interact, etc. When you're ready to fly again, you pick up a PLEX and become a licensed pilot and can fly again.

It's so obvious it hurts actually.



oh I see, that makes sense then
Amanda Sterling
Doomheim
#247 - 2012-02-26 21:10:01 UTC
Incarna will make sense when you can actually interact with other players. And of course ship interiors are way more atractive than captain quarters. But you CCP already know this, don't you?

PS. Cockpit view in the future?
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#248 - 2012-02-26 22:19:43 UTC
Go back to what you where building before you came up with the Nex. Look at what you trashed and revive that, and you'll have working incarna.

The corp office, the bars, the establishments people can start up if they pay rent. Let players build their own world and it will be better then what you can create.

You talked about player run agents, corp agents, bartenders, churches, shops, pod rooms and social areas with games. Is that not enough as a first release? I'd say it is.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#249 - 2012-02-26 22:35:44 UTC
Amanda Sterling wrote:
Incarna will make sense when you can actually interact with other players. And of course ship interiors are way more atractive than captain quarters. But you CCP already know this, don't you?

PS. Cockpit view in the future?


You should know so far that we are capsuleers, and thus we command starships from within an hydrostactic capsule to which our brain is connected via several neural plugs. We pilot and interact with the ship from a semi-unconscious state of mind and what we see in our client's GUi is actually what the capsule feeds into teh capsuleer's brain for information and decission making.

We barely interact with the crew as they are as expendable as the ship itself (quite a funny thing as a BS has got a crew in the thousands), and also the conversion process, the inmortality through countless deaths and being like 1 in a million and filthy rich causes capsuleers to be somehow psychotic and awkward.
Esceem
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#250 - 2012-02-27 00:02:05 UTC
Nice to read you're continuing with WIS.
Just some of my initial expectations about what it would include someday (no particular order):

- Get personal mission briefings and de-briefings in agent's offices
- Ordering ship and item repairs; watching station staff and maintenance robots do the repairs
- Checking current traffic outside station by
-> checking station radar system
-> watching live pics of surveillance cameras
-> looking out of the window
- Meet in dark bars, noble restaurants, conference rooms, gyms etc.
- Concord squads and robots chase villains in hi sec stations
- NPC station staff doing repairs, cleaning etc.
- Stores where buyer and seller
-> can view / display turrets and slaver hounds
-> fit ships with modules, ammo etc and trade them as a whole
-> Try out and by new clothing
- Player can modify and sell clothing items
- Move inside a stations by e.g. subway, shuttle taxi, moving pavements and stairs, elevators, scooters
- Zero G areas
- Billboards for rent
- Fighting in stations:
-> Stations are equipped with remote brain scan scanners
-> hi sec: fighting is not allowed (surveillance by Concord)
-> low sec: station has arena where people can fight (and kill) each other.
-> 0.0: fighting is allowed in the entire station; stations can be conquered by overwhelming the inhabitants
- 2 to 3 different station layouts w/ different sizes for each race (I miss the pre-Trinity large Gallente station...)
- no NEX
David Magnus
#251 - 2012-02-27 02:10:39 UTC
Traidir wrote:
There's an interesting contradiction in this effort. It requires an insular activity that involves only a few people, but which can influence the sandbox on a large scale. I think I have just such an idea:

Station Maintenance Technician/Chief

Agents in the station would vend "Station Maintenance" missions to those WiS. These missions would involve anywhere from a single pilot to a large group of technicians. They would need to wander the stations servicing various sectors (there's a potential here for instanced game play, though it wouldn't necessarily be required... techs could easily show up needing to work on a pub's stage lighting or a docking hanger's hydraulics systems). These missions would require certain skills from those who participate (skills that exist in game already, like engineering, electronics, jury rigging, and mechanic for instance). Additionally higher levels of these skills would impart unique abilities not granted those with only basic skills (for example a tech with jury rigging 5 might be able to do a job in 30 seconds that, properly done with Mechanic 5, would take 5 minutes). The actual missions themselves could consist of various mini-games, which can have all kinds of levels of complexity: from a simple game of "memory" or (even worse) connect-the-dots, to tuning a filter network, to designing a power distribution network, to figuring out how to connect pipe A to manifold B without disconnecting very important power conduit C (whatever you do though, don't make it a "click the widget" game).

Failure to achieve these seemingly unimportant missions could have large scale consequences. Indeed, this introduces a meta-gaming element where people intentionally do something horrible: "WHAT?! Tech Team A "accidentally" cut the power conduit to the station sentry gun targeting systems, and Tech Team B just reported a medical emergency at the docking bay doors? Gee, I hope no-one outside was counting on the sentry guns or docking for the next 5 minutes while the backups kick in." How's that for violent griefing? Such actions would, of course, mangle one's faction standing with the station and probably get one fired, but it could be SO worth it.

Stations who see very little traffic may slowly begin to lose services or the quality of the service they provide. This would also help to give a more plausible reason for why a low sec station has lower refinery efficiency: those clunky maintenance bots just cant keep up with the abuse and no one's ever around the fix the big problems.

Also, usage could determine the rate of decay. therefore stations like Jita would require vastly more maintenance crews (which would justify the greater number of missions they'd likely be giving out). Additionally, the repair needs could interact with each other through a "depletion layer" just like Planetary Interaction. That could even be the basis for a more dynamic type of maintenance mission where multiple teams or individuals working separately have to interact with the "maintenance layer" in order to accomplish goals (kind of like incursions).

For example:
Team A has to get the comms relay back up and running
-> in order to do that Team B has to repair the atmosphere scrubbers in section D
-> unfortunately section D has no gravity right now and no one can figure out what the problem is
-> until Team C fixes the internal sensors
-> and if the comms arn't sorted out in the next 30 minutes, a bunch of capsuleers wont be able to talk to their mission agents for the next hour.

Thus a social dynamic is created; there's potential for immediate (face to face) interaction as well as distributed game play. The ecosystem has the potential to have wide effects on the sandbox as a whole, while still being completely optional. The places with high populations will naturally benefit, and a human landscape of well maintained (as well as seedy) stations will evolve.

P.S.
Another, optional idea that could fit into this is "Station Docking Fees" to fund the Station Maintenance Budget and create an isk sink/source dichotomy between maintenance and usage.



Some brilliant ideas here!

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion
Seismic Stan
Freebooted Junkworks
#252 - 2012-02-27 03:26:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Seismic Stan
Aha, I'm onto you Team Avatar.

I note that in CCP Unifex's devblog, his announcement that the next expansion is to be called "Inferno" came shortly after all the missiles were renamed, with one missile type also being called "Inferno".

Coincidence? I think not.

Some careful research has revealed the true nature of EVE Online's upcoming avatar-based expansions.


Summer 2012 - EVE Online: Inferno

The first expansion will see the optional inclusion of open fires in our Captain's Quarters, with a hearth fashioned from a disused Inferno missile. Not only will this serve as a statement of style, it also provides an entertaining way to delete items, dragging-and-dropping in order to make the blaze higher. Sometimes things may melt together to form rare loot, other times it will explode, wiping out your clone.

With the ability to invite one other player into your quarters, this will lead to exciting games of fireside Russian roulette.

New animations such as "furtive glance", "hand-holding" and "knee-touching" will enable players to get to know each other better in an intimate environment ripe for some awkward yet romantic moments.

Jita 4-4 will be renamed Brokeback Station.


Winter 2012 - EVE Online: Trauma

With the release of the highly anticipated CARBON Internal Organ Simulator, players will be able to manually insert their implants in a location of their choosing, with creative placement yielding additional benefits and comical side-effects.

Accidentally put your 'Deadeye' gunnery implant too close to your optic nerve and your clone becomes irreversibly boss-eyed. Stimulate your growth hormones with your 'Yeti' implant to become fantastically hairy, or shove your 'Beancounter' implant into your brainstem and become embarrassingly flatulent.

With technology advancements now allowing up to five other capsuleers to join you, players can enjoy entertaining 'Operation' style party games such as Implant Darts, Pass the Kidney and Scalpel Fight


Summer 2013 - EVE Online: Nova

Nova, the expansion all the teenagers had been hoping for, sees the introduction of fully customisable pole-dancers. As a licensed clone service, Nova will be available on all stations utilising state-of-the-art AI. Nova will do everything she can to please the ship-spinning capsuleer, with a variety of provocative dances. Fully customisable and alluring costumes will be available from the NeX store.

After the first few weeks, Nova will start to expect the player to be more attentive, setting increasingly unreasonable missions, demanding gifts and sometimes requiring the capsuleer to remain docked for the session. The optional male variant (Dave) will just become inactive and sit on the couch watching holovids.

Fortunately, Nova is backwards compatible with previous expansions and can "interact" with all Trauma devices and the Inferno features.


Winter 2013 - EVE Online: Mjolnir

Named for the hammer of Thor, Norse God of Thunder, Mjolnir will indeed allow your avatar to get to grips with a hammer. In fact a full set of DIY tools will become standard in all Captain's Quarters and will be stored in an all new annexed area of the CQ called the Self-contained Hassle-free Engineering Dome (SHED).

Better yet, the CQ will now be fully customisable. With fully-featured world-building tools, the player will now be able to manipulate 3D versions of many in-game items and build unique constructions. Tinkering with strange devices in the SHED can lead to the creation of unique and marketable items.

Unfortunately, every time you dock, you will find Nova has moved things from your hangar and won't tell you where they are until certain amendments have been made to the main Captain's Quarters area. Expect DIY missions such as "Wardrobe Construction", "Curtain-Pole Adjustment" and "Fix the Holoscreen (cos it won't turn on any more, I don't know what I've done)."


I can't wait. The future is coming. ;)

[Funnier with pictures on Freebooted: CCP's "Walking in Stations" Expansion Schedule Revealed]

EVE Online: The Text Adventure --- GameSkinny Correspondent --- Freebooted Blogger
Malus Rimor
Perkone
Caldari State
#253 - 2012-02-27 03:47:13 UTC
Smoke Adian wrote:

What's the difference between spinning around a POS seeing everyone's ships on the overview and standing in a laggy, forever-to-load, "ready room".


The difference is that anyone can fly into said system, easily scan your ships out and provide intel that:
a) an enemy fleet is forming
b) what shiptypes everyone is in so that it can be countered

Which is precisely why alot of fleets are built with everyone docked in station.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#254 - 2012-02-27 06:23:23 UTC
Personally I think that CCP should not abandon its plans for social spaces in WiS. This is particularly important due to the interest in changing how local works. Players need to be able to meet each other so they can form friendships (and later on, corporations). The social spaces in WiS should be treated as an important part of this process, especially if local is significantly altered or removed.

Game systems that encourage players to socialise and meet each other are critical in ensuring players become ongoing players.
Daedra Blue
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#255 - 2012-02-27 09:26:47 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
[quote=Kasidis] We'll probably write some very depressing Gamasutra post-mortem article about it at some point, as a warning for future generations.


Change it to surely and publish it. I would love to read it. Make it long and detailed.

I am a software developer and am interested in that and probably many others around here are even if for different aspects.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#256 - 2012-02-27 10:54:18 UTC
Although I'm all for WiS, please stop with the over customisation of avatars.

Those Tatoos look nice though as long as that Avatar is a smal picture others see in their chat box, I realy don't care, and I consider myself Pro WiS.

If you wnat to show us something:

1) Start with a place where people can meet a big hall with a view on the ships leaving the station.
- Uses players can meet and talk and see whom are hanging in front ot the station, can even be used for inteligence for pirates because they can pick out ships see where they headed (couldn't this be done from space as well, yes but from the station the players leaving can't see who is telling from the station.

No need for any form of combat jet (in the hall weapons aren't allowed, other regions could be added later or there could be a change of rules later where people are allowed to carry their weapons, when the current problems are solved.

2) when implementing combat don't start in stations, use missions with a undock possibility or a Drone that is used for ondocking (Archeology and hacking missions would lend them selfs for that) would make them more fun as well.

3) Don't drown youself in these minigames, those are only fun when there is actualy something to do in those stations as well.

That said keep going I would love the time when I can shoot Greedo (and I will shoot first!) run to my ship and have to avoid Greedo's corp's mate trying to catch me, both on the station and in space.
Jazzmyn
Dawn's LightP
#257 - 2012-02-27 13:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jazzmyn
Esceem wrote:

- Fighting in stations:
-> 0.0: fighting is allowed in the entire station; stations can be conquered by overwhelming the inhabitants


This.

After station defences are down the attackers have to send in a boarding party and take control of the interior of the station. If the attackers fail another reinforce timer follows. \o/

Equal sized teams (say 24 vs. 24) that are randomly selected from those that have done damage to station, and lots of lazor guns. Would be fun.

Works perfectly in Pirates of Burning Seas, maybe u should consult Flying Labs Sofware.

Fight ! Fight ! Never surrender, never surrender !
vagy
Dicta Boelcke
#258 - 2012-02-27 14:09:38 UTC
Uff.. I think it's all been said here. I gave few likes here and there.. bah! give everyone like 3! exotic dancers in their CQ and a minigame with ability to undress those :F that way you can buy more time for that other stuff :)
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#259 - 2012-02-27 18:29:38 UTC
Jazzmyn wrote:
Esceem wrote:

- Fighting in stations:
-> 0.0: fighting is allowed in the entire station; stations can be conquered by overwhelming the inhabitants


This.

After station defences are down the attackers have to send in a boarding party and take control of the interior of the station. If the attackers fail another reinforce timer follows. \o/

Equal sized teams (say 24 vs. 24) that are randomly selected from those that have done damage to station, and lots of lazor guns. Would be fun.

Works perfectly in Pirates of Burning Seas, maybe u should consult Flying Labs Sofware.


I really like this idea. Especially in regards to 0.0. This could actually encourage more players to join null-sec alliances. Imagine the battles that would ensue.

Adapt or Die
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#260 - 2012-02-27 20:31:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanth
After reading through this thread, there's a few things that keep coming back:

* WiS should be about social interaction, many different things has been suggested, stuff like
- The random socializing spots, bars, corp offices/hq's, stores, general halls, etc
- Mini-games in station popped up quite a few times, there's a number of ideas here and other places
- Alot of people mentioned the 'player created missions' that CCP themselves spoken about ages ago
- And there's been alot of (different) suggestions regarding in-station combat

* Regarding the character creator
- Not too much talk about this really, some mention existing bugs, some want more tattoos and attire, others think the stuff we have is barely showing anyway with the small avatars we see in chats as is

If you judge purely based on this thread, it seems the character creator just needs some fine tune, bug fix, light additions, some new touch, and really not a whole team dedicated to it. On the other hand, almost everyone that want WiS in one way or another (even those who want FiS > WiS like me) seems to agree that WiS can add something to the game, but it has to be a social interaction, in stations.

I did read all 14 pages, this is just a rough generalisation of what you can make out of the thread so far. It may give an idea of what players want tho. On page 13 (I believe) there was a guy suggesting CCP should have a specific test server set up with purely WiS (no space), purely that for development, and that CCP should interact with players on the WiS development rather than testing it internally (as stated they will). Judging by t0rfi's blog, with "internal testing" and focus on character creation, and comparing that with the replies in this thread.. I think CCP would do well taking this man's suggestion, and check in more with players during the development of WiS. It's quite clear it has to be focused on social interactions (of various kind).

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.