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Making ABC ores a Sov only upgrade to go along with the discussed Drone nerf?
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Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#1 - 2012-02-26 01:03:29 UTC
I am not sure if this has been discussed in forums before but I was wondering what people thought about making access to ABC ores require a specific Sov based upgrade. I think the benefits of this (in conjuction with the removal of secondary ore streams, i.e. Drone loot) is that it would allow Sov empires to focus and nurture mining as a profession that they have to build up and are generously rewarded for. It also makes these mining areas strategic targets. The mining corps within these alliances will become needed, essential and demand protection from the natural rise in groups looking to grief and or cripple the industrial backbone of rivals.

I want to be clear that I am not discussing the current upgrade system that allows one to access larger grav sites but a complete removal of ABC from all but upgraded (unlocked) systems.

Opinions?
Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-02-26 01:20:35 UTC
Is there ABC ores in NPC 0.0 space?

How about wormholes?

honest question.
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#3 - 2012-02-26 01:32:28 UTC
Jason McCoy wrote:
Is there ABC ores in NPC 0.0 space?

How about wormholes?

honest question.


Yes to both I believe. In nullsec that has the correct sec rating and in all wormholes. Given the profitability of PI and site running in WH space the loss of ABC ores would most likely not be a major impact. I never found mining in a WH to be worth the trouble. That is a personal opinion only. It can and is done. I simply believe that to make mining a real profession again we need to limit access to the high end ores in a meaningful way that increases gameplay and interdependence.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-02-26 02:43:00 UTC
Yes, let's give the big SOV holding alliances something else they can potentially put a strangle hold on.
Jurinak
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-02-26 11:02:24 UTC
yes take all away from small corps and give it away to the blob. That makes Eve much more fun...Roll

If some WH guys want to mine let them, it needs more work and its more dangerous then 0.0 mining, and if it is not a major impact why do want to remove??

completly senseless what you wrote
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-02-26 18:31:52 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:
I am not sure if this has been discussed in forums before but I was wondering what people thought about making access to ABC ores require a specific Sov based upgrade. I think the benefits of this (in conjuction with the removal of secondary ore streams, i.e. Drone loot) is that it would allow Sov empires to focus and nurture mining as a profession that they have to build up and are generously rewarded for. It also makes these mining areas strategic targets. The mining corps within these alliances will become needed, essential and demand protection from the natural rise in groups looking to grief and or cripple the industrial backbone of rivals.

I want to be clear that I am not discussing the current upgrade system that allows one to access larger grav sites but a complete removal of ABC from all but upgraded (unlocked) systems.

Opinions?

Well, that would go to far. The current system isn't used as is, because the Drone Regions supply about 70% of the high end minerals on the market. (your "secondary stream" is actually the primary) Mining in 0.0 is non viable because of the oversupply of high end minerals, due to gunmining, depressing the mineral prices. A cautious approach to this issue is needed. First let us see if shutting off the mineral stream from gunmining in the Drone regions will make mining in 0.0 regions more viable. If so, then all 0.0 alliances will produce ore and increase their industrial index to get the larger volumes of ABCM ore as an income stream, and will have the desired effect you are looking to achieve. If not, then we can try your solution, but first let us make the secondary stream for highend minerals truly be a secondary stream.

Look at the map in game and look at the industrial index filter to see where the industrial index has been upgraded. This is what Drone gunmining has wrought. Vast swaths of space devoid of any mining industry due to the oversupply of minerals from one region alone.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#7 - 2012-02-27 13:49:43 UTC
No, ABCs should not be tied into sov. That's just the "move all ABCs out of w-space" bad idea by another name. Reduce the quantity of minerals coming from drone poo drops and module drops and ABCs will regain much of their value.

One possible fix for the ABC ores (plus Spod, Dark O, Gneiss) would be to increase (slightly) the amount of minerals that they contain. Or adjust the size of the raw ore.

For instance, Spod is 16 m3/u, which is one reason why it's hated. Changing the m3/u size to be 8 would double its ISK/m3 value. You could do something similar with Croc by making it 12 m3/u instead of 16. Gneiss has a similar issue and should probably also have its m3/u size trimmed.

The fix for Bist/Ark is probably to add a bit of Mex/Iso to the mix of those ores on top of what they already have.
Kyr Evotorin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-02-27 14:52:31 UTC
Player driven market is player driven. just a reminder. Drop the m3/u of an ore, prices of that ore's yielding minerals go down as well.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-02-27 14:52:46 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:
I am not discussing the current upgrade system that allows one to access larger grav sites but a complete removal of ABC from all but upgraded (unlocked) systems.

Opinions?


No - for a simple reason, you break the risk vs rewards concept. By sheltering the mining of ABC ores to the upgraded cores of nullsec empires, you make them into little more than cash cows which can be mined in the relative safety of your own space.

Mining in NPC null? Far riskier (and far more unreliable) than mining in sov held null.

Mining in WHs? Again - riskier than in sov held null.

You propose to nerf both of the activities above for very little gain, in terms of gameplay experience.
Kyr Evotorin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-02-27 15:03:23 UTC
If anything, give WH space belts :P
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#11 - 2012-02-27 15:07:15 UTC
not my area of expertise, but I disagree. You shouldn't have to need upgrades to get ABC ores. You should always be able to find them in naturally occurring gravimentric belts anywhere in 0.0 (i believe this is how it is now).

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
#12 - 2012-02-27 15:09:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Zathryon
one of CCPs goals has been to make all parts of 0.0 profitable and desirable and nerfing drone poo would make the drone regions completely useless. regardless of your opinion about it, nerfing drone poo goes against one of CCPs main goals.

getting and keeping industry index up is very difficult as it is, and the ABC in belts can be wiped out by one miner inside a few hours or less, even in a -1.0 system (ive done it). what you are suggesting wont make a huge difference unless you also decrease the result of the industrial index (or make it more difficult), because the ABC in the belts is tiny. if you nerf the industrial index then you make industrial index totally useless.

also while I know very little about WHs, I think theyre dangerous enough to warrant having ABC in them.

I can understand the sentiment of wanting to balance hisec mining somehow and make it more profitable but i dont think this is the way
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-02-27 21:09:54 UTC
Honestly, I think something needs to make lowsec mining worth more. Every time I find a high sec grav site full of low sec roids, I give it a pass because they're worth like 10-15% more than just plain old high sec ones, for way more hassle.