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New dev blog: News from the fontlines

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Deliceous
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2011-09-21 02:41:09 UTC
wha ha "mr 5S0O1I" I am finally going to be able to send you a tell after seeing you in local.
SwissChris1
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#102 - 2011-09-21 02:52:24 UTC
2 back-to-back devblogs that made me very happy Big smile

Thanks CCP! I feel like you are heading in the right direction again (first devblog in weeks that didn't make me rage)
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2011-09-21 06:55:12 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Yaar Podshipnik wrote:
Nice, but I have some questions:

  1. Will it be possible to change the font size of ESC menu?
  2. Will it be possible to change the font size of the mission descriptions?
  3. Will it be possible to change the font size of the local player list (player names)?
  4. Will it be possible to change the font size on the ship fitting window?
  5. Will it be possible to change the font size in the item description windows?
  6. Will it be possible to change the font size in the PI, S&I, and market screens?
  7. Why not allow us to use our own favorite font? Most of the day I stare at DejaVu Sans Mono and I really like that font (the whole font family actually).


Nope, you'll only be able to change the size of the context menu, as before.
I'm sure that this question can't be answered by you as it's most likely a different department. However, has there been any discussion to give us more control over what is a larger font on our screen and what isn't?

The questions are asked individually as many of the pilots I fly with have always wished they could increase the font size of the overview without increasing font sizes of other things in the game.

If it's never been discussed, mind raising the question so that when future aspects of the UI are replaced, code can be put in to keep this a consideration?

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2011-09-21 12:19:37 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Yaar Podshipnik wrote:
Nice, but I have some questions:

  1. Will it be possible to change the font size of ESC menu?
  2. Will it be possible to change the font size of the mission descriptions?
  3. Will it be possible to change the font size of the local player list (player names)?
  4. Will it be possible to change the font size on the ship fitting window?
  5. Will it be possible to change the font size in the item description windows?
  6. Will it be possible to change the font size in the PI, S&I, and market screens?
  7. Why not allow us to use our own favorite font? Most of the day I stare at DejaVu Sans Mono and I really like that font (the whole font family actually).


Nope, you'll only be able to change the size of the context menu, as before.
I'm sure that this question can't be answered by you as it's most likely a different department. However, has there been any discussion to give us more control over what is a larger font on our screen and what isn't?

The questions are asked individually as many of the pilots I fly with have always wished they could increase the font size of the overview without increasing font sizes of other things in the game.


^^ this. CCP shouldn't be working on fonts, they should be working on font handling and UI scalability. We were even told that carbon makes our on screen windows out of textures, so applying a scaling factor to the texture/window should be easy.

The font is nicer, so kudos to the designer - unfortunately its the wrong solution.

Quote:

If it's never been discussed,


haha. Lol
Darth Brole
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2011-09-21 12:33:15 UTC
Fantastic :) A lot easier to call out systems now in CTAs and link distant systems in chat :)
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2011-09-21 13:26:48 UTC
I reserve judgement on the long-term legibility of the new font(s) at this point, but I do feel the need to point out that there is inconsistent capitalization in the new General Settings configuration window example found here:

http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2208/2401/escmenunew.jpg

Specifically, some of the check box descriptions use capitalization on only the first word. Other descriptions use caps on each word's first letter. Consistency in execution, to me, is just as important as the effort put into crafting this UI update.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Simvastatin Montelukast
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#107 - 2011-09-21 13:58:50 UTC
+1 I will now put off buying reading glasses todayBig smile

Seriously!
Alejan Gerakh
Scourge Wolf Syndicate
#108 - 2011-09-21 15:15:11 UTC
Myrhial Arkenath wrote:
As someone who wears contacts for Myopia (that's nearsightedness, or not being able to see well in the distance) I can't thank you enough. People who suffer from this will know that their contacts or glasses scale things down, making small text harder to read. It effectively means I have the font currently set to expanded, have have to bump it up twice from the default size to be able to read this. Have to admit, I play EVE on 1920*1200 because I enjoy my internet spaceships in all their splendor, but still. I hope with this font I don't have to tweak every conversation window or channel that I open and be able to just read everything without squinting. The screenshots are promising already.

PS: I agree it would be nice if we could control fonts more individually, and I like the idea of allowing us to choose from a series of fonts or to be able to use our own. Barring that, perhaps leave the old font available for a while and track usage statistics?

I'm actually also myopic, but never really felt that bothered by the font. Still, I approve of changes that help FCs I may work with in the future actually read the system names right, finally (No more me thinking, "That's a 0, boss, not an O." or whatever).

"Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."

"They called the Enterprise a garbage scow! Sir."

Chaotic Good - The ends justify blowing $#!t up.
CCP t0rfifrans
C C P
C C P Alliance
#109 - 2011-09-21 15:20:40 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP t0rfifrans
Krispy Dingo wrote:

When playing on an exceptionally large screen, like a hi-def television, the current font becomes unreadable; while it does appear that the new font will help with some of the readability, none of us are getting any younger and I can only cram my nose so close to my screen.

CarbonUI, our new UI engine, supports this. We have it running in a rough state on our development branch. However, there are some issues with some sliders and icons being offset, since their position was encoded in absolute values as opposed to relative values. Nothing we can't fix.

We could possibly release this to TQ shortly as an "experimental feature", allowing you to scale to 125%, 150% and so on. We would get your feedback on it, expose some defects and polish it further and then some patches later take off the experimental feature label. We could also wait, finish it completely and then release it, but that would mean we'd get feedback later and be more late reacting to your feedback.

In any case, this is partially implemented and on the roadmap to be released.
Alejan Gerakh
Scourge Wolf Syndicate
#110 - 2011-09-21 15:41:35 UTC
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
What I want to know about this, and the other devblog from yesterday, what's the timeline to Sisi and then TQ?

I'm hoping that these are not core updates for the winter expansion, but Incarna 1.2 updates that would include the conclusion of the captains quarters (to get that monkey off your back), due no later than October 2011...

I think one of the Dev comments actually covered this at some point..? Basically said some of the changes would be seen on SiSi within a week or three, or something to that effect? Though this really should be mentioned in the devBlogs themselves, I suppose.

"Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."

"They called the Enterprise a garbage scow! Sir."

Chaotic Good - The ends justify blowing $#!t up.
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#111 - 2011-09-21 15:46:54 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Krispy Dingo wrote:

When playing on an exceptionally large screen, like a hi-def television, the current font becomes unreadable; while it does appear that the new font will help with some of the readability, none of us are getting any younger and I can only cram my nose so close to my screen.

CarbonUI, our new UI engine, supports this. We have it running in a rough state on our development branch. However, there are some issues with some sliders and icons being offset, since their position was encoded in absolute values as opposed to relative values. Nothing we can't fix.

We could possibly release this to TQ shortly as an "experimental feature", allowing you to scale to 125%, 150% and so on. We would get your feedback on it, expose some defects and polish it further and then some patches later take off the experimental feature label. We could also wait, finish it completely and then release it, but that would mean we'd get feedback later and be more late reacting to your feedback.

In any case, this is partially implemented and on the roadmap to be released.


Release early and rough and get complaints or wait until finished and get complaints?

My vote is early and rough as experimental, get mass feedback, and patch it based on real world use.

_ _
Krispy Dingo
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#112 - 2011-09-21 15:53:11 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:

CarbonUI, our new UI engine, supports this. We have it running in a rough state on our development branch. However, there are some issues with some sliders and icons being offset, since their position was encoded in absolute values as opposed to relative values. Nothing we can't fix.

We could possibly release this to TQ shortly as an "experimental feature", allowing you to scale to 125%, 150% and so on. We would get your feedback on it, expose some defects and polish it further and then some patches later take off the experimental feature label. We could also wait, finish it completely and then release it, but that would mean we'd get feedback later and be more late reacting to your feedback.

In any case, this is partially implemented and on the roadmap to be released.


You just became my 5th most favorite CCP employee.

Thanks for the response.

Website Twitter
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#113 - 2011-09-21 16:02:53 UTC
Krispy Dingo wrote:
You just became my 5th most favorite CCP employee.


Fifth? He took top spot when he mentioned his vision of exploration meant getting out of your ship to find loots, pirate destroys ship, only way home is a bullet to the head.

That is exploration on hard core.

_ _
Alexandra Alt
Doomheim
#114 - 2011-09-21 16:08:08 UTC
Rees Noturana wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Krispy Dingo wrote:

When playing on an exceptionally large screen, like a hi-def television, the current font becomes unreadable; while it does appear that the new font will help with some of the readability, none of us are getting any younger and I can only cram my nose so close to my screen.

CarbonUI, our new UI engine, supports this. We have it running in a rough state on our development branch. However, there are some issues with some sliders and icons being offset, since their position was encoded in absolute values as opposed to relative values. Nothing we can't fix.

We could possibly release this to TQ shortly as an "experimental feature", allowing you to scale to 125%, 150% and so on. We would get your feedback on it, expose some defects and polish it further and then some patches later take off the experimental feature label. We could also wait, finish it completely and then release it, but that would mean we'd get feedback later and be more late reacting to your feedback.

In any case, this is partially implemented and on the roadmap to be released.


Release early and rough and get complaints or wait until finished and get complaints?

My vote is early and rough as experimental, get mass feedback, and patch it based on real world use.


I don't agree with that, most of the flak CCP has been getting is related to unfinished and unpolished feature release, this will be another one to add to it, and eventually forgotten when resource allocation changes resulting in a never to be polished feature like many we have right now.

I rather a lot more to endure some downsides of this particular feature right now and have the confidence the work will continue as it set on feature adding milestones instead of not important category of bug fixing which are 2 different 'categories' in a development house, and we know how terrible it get's to pick up a not important bug fix in the long run.
Alejan Gerakh
Scourge Wolf Syndicate
#115 - 2011-09-21 16:08:28 UTC
Barrettz wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
it's good to see all the positive feedback here:)


Well deserved!

Seriously - great job. Much easier to read and I like the font! The font didn't take any time for me to get used to. I especially liked the ESC menu.

The font could be a tad more "spacier" but with that said I have never seen a truly "spacy" font sub Star Trek and that would look stupid. haha

So...with that said....

ANOTHER EPIC WIN FOR TEAM BFF (THE BEST DEV TEAM IN EVE)!

(CAPS because I am shouting : )

I figure for most instances of text, we could probably do without a 'spacey' font. I think major headers and labels (window names and such) would be fine stylized, but otherwise, something readable is important. I remember one game I played ages ago had a font for stylistic purposes that only really looked good at large sizes (like, say, the EVE logo font), and another font for most of the time that was much easier for readability at most sizes.

"Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."

"They called the Enterprise a garbage scow! Sir."

Chaotic Good - The ends justify blowing $#!t up.
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#116 - 2011-09-21 16:18:50 UTC
Alexandra Alt wrote:
Rees Noturana wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Krispy Dingo wrote:

When playing on an exceptionally large screen, like a hi-def television, the current font becomes unreadable; while it does appear that the new font will help with some of the readability, none of us are getting any younger and I can only cram my nose so close to my screen.

CarbonUI, our new UI engine, supports this. We have it running in a rough state on our development branch. However, there are some issues with some sliders and icons being offset, since their position was encoded in absolute values as opposed to relative values. Nothing we can't fix.

We could possibly release this to TQ shortly as an "experimental feature", allowing you to scale to 125%, 150% and so on. We would get your feedback on it, expose some defects and polish it further and then some patches later take off the experimental feature label. We could also wait, finish it completely and then release it, but that would mean we'd get feedback later and be more late reacting to your feedback.

In any case, this is partially implemented and on the roadmap to be released.


Release early and rough and get complaints or wait until finished and get complaints?

My vote is early and rough as experimental, get mass feedback, and patch it based on real world use.


I don't agree with that, most of the flak CCP has been getting is related to unfinished and unpolished feature release, this will be another one to add to it, and eventually forgotten when resource allocation changes resulting in a never to be polished feature like many we have right now.

I rather a lot more to endure some downsides of this particular feature right now and have the confidence the work will continue as it set on feature adding milestones instead of not important category of bug fixing which are 2 different 'categories' in a development house, and we know how terrible it get's to pick up a not important bug fix in the long run.



CarbonUI is a much needed core update and I think it is critical to EVE moving forward. The last time they released a preview it was a beta feature on Singularity that could be enabled and disabled as desired through user preferences. It's going to happen but I think we'll all be better off if those that are willing to live with it, can live with it, to help it get finished that way we want and need it. It just needs to be an optional experimental feature.

_ _
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#117 - 2011-09-21 16:27:11 UTC
I seemed to have side tracked yet another thread.What?

Punkturis, keep up the great font update work! Big smile

_ _
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#118 - 2011-09-21 16:29:40 UTC
Alejan Gerakh wrote:
Barrettz wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
it's good to see all the positive feedback here:)


Well deserved!

Seriously - great job. Much easier to read and I like the font! The font didn't take any time for me to get used to. I especially liked the ESC menu.

The font could be a tad more "spacier" but with that said I have never seen a truly "spacy" font sub Star Trek and that would look stupid. haha

So...with that said....

ANOTHER EPIC WIN FOR TEAM BFF (THE BEST DEV TEAM IN EVE)!

(CAPS because I am shouting : )

I figure for most instances of text, we could probably do without a 'spacey' font. I think major headers and labels (window names and such) would be fine stylized, but otherwise, something readable is important. I remember one game I played ages ago had a font for stylistic purposes that only really looked good at large sizes (like, say, the EVE logo font), and another font for most of the time that was much easier for readability at most sizes.


An EVE/sci-fi stylistic typeface, one for reading, and a third fixed width font that is useable in messages too so we can send out spreadsheet like tables that remain nicely formatted.

This is Spreadsheets Online after all.

_ _
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#119 - 2011-09-21 16:57:43 UTC
Rees Noturana wrote:
I seemed to have side tracked yet another thread.What?

Punkturis, keep up the great font update work! Big smile



on it Blink

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
I'thari
#120 - 2011-09-21 18:00:19 UTC
Rees Noturana wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Krispy Dingo wrote:

When playing on an exceptionally large screen, like a hi-def television, the current font becomes unreadable; while it does appear that the new font will help with some of the readability, none of us are getting any younger and I can only cram my nose so close to my screen.

CarbonUI, our new UI engine, supports this. We have it running in a rough state on our development branch. However, there are some issues with some sliders and icons being offset, since their position was encoded in absolute values as opposed to relative values. Nothing we can't fix.

We could possibly release this to TQ shortly as an "experimental feature", allowing you to scale to 125%, 150% and so on. We would get your feedback on it, expose some defects and polish it further and then some patches later take off the experimental feature label. We could also wait, finish it completely and then release it, but that would mean we'd get feedback later and be more late reacting to your feedback.

In any case, this is partially implemented and on the roadmap to be released.


Release early and rough and get complaints or wait until finished and get complaints?

My vote is early and rough as experimental, get mass feedback, and patch it based on real world use.

I'd agree if CCP would actually care about feedback from test-server <- that should be fixed first, then putting up experimental builds there. When feedback goes waste (to keep up with release dates) no amount of early, rough builds will help.

Disclaimer:

Every single character used in this post is a work of fiction. Any similarities with real-world alphabet, or - god forbid - language is purely unintnetional!