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Imperial Guardians - Incursions and the Dec Shield
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OfBalance
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-02-27 02:32:49 UTC
Texty wrote:
Isn't this EVE? You're basically not supposed to trust anyone, and also can't make people trust you just by telling them to do so. Either do away with the dec shield, or let the members that want to join incursion fleets temporarily leave your corp. You can't have your cake and eat it.


That's the beauty of this. You have the cake. You bring it to them. They either eat the cake with you, or shoot you in the face and then eat the bloody mess of cake and human remains. The choice is theirs to make.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2012-02-27 02:45:23 UTC
Aura Ikku wrote:

Well, firstly incursions were designed to get people to interact where they would not do so otherwise.


That they were, but we should not confuse that 'interaction' with taking avoidable additional risks and getting ganked. Notwithstanding the idiots who claim that incursions = no risk, we all play within our own risk threshold comfort zones.

My comfort zone does not usually include basi-repping incursion runners carrying wardecs. I'm also usually not that interested, when I am trying to run incursions, on checking out the detailed background of every wardec that a fellow incursion runner claims is of no risk. It's easier for me to just move on and let the wardec-guy's fleet find a logi happy to do so ... that way we are all happy and operating in our comfort zone.

Aura Ikku wrote:

Its unfortunate, that by offering a place for the newest of players, Imperial Guardians have been forced to implement a dec shield to protect these new players. At the same time it restricts the older players, who are already spending much of their time helping the new players, from earning ISK.


Nope, no-one has forced you to do anything. You claiming that the wardecs that your members show are a result of your dec-shield policies. No-one forces you to dec-shield and there are a whole heap of noob-friendly corps out there that do not routinely dec-shield.

You guys appear to have chosen one approach to the hisec noob wardec griefer problem, and are now trying to explain away one of the consequences of that action ... that incursion logis do not always want to inherit the wardec aggro by repping your guys. Nothing wrong with that.

Aura Ikku wrote:

So, you could sit back and say "F*ck you. Why should I?" or you could see it from another perspective, that you're indirectly helping the newer players. Yes, its a risk, but eve is full of risks.


I wish you every success in convincing the logis out there that repping your guys is worth it.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-02-27 05:13:58 UTC
I'm gonna consider this thread just like all the other Incursion recruitment threads that are being created in the wake of Darius 'Killing Mothership and ganking Incursion runners' thread.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-02-27 05:43:26 UTC
Surely the sixth largest corp in EVE can run its own Incursion fleets anyway?
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2012-02-27 15:35:52 UTC
Not sure if the thread is a troll from the beginning or amzi/krissadas way of making the alliance leader look like an idiot.


Either way .... both worked.
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#46 - 2012-02-27 15:50:17 UTC
I, as in Incursion Logi pilot, will not RR anyone that has risk to me. I appreciate your reason for doing what you are doing but I will not be RR you.
Aura Ikku
Imperial Guardians
Tactical Narcotics Team
#47 - 2012-02-27 16:24:56 UTC
Masamune Dekoro wrote:
Surely the sixth largest corp in EVE can run its own Incursion fleets anyway?


Indeed we can and do, but our incursion FC's aren't available 24/7 and besides, interaction with other corps is beneficial for all involved.

Cedo Nulli wrote:
Not sure if the thread is a troll from the beginning or amzi/krissadas way of making the alliance leader look like an idiot.


If posting information regarding our dec shield helps to clarify the situation and potentially help even one of my members, even in in the slightest, then this is a small price to pay.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#48 - 2012-02-27 19:14:36 UTC
This isn't really an explanation to anyone here on the forums or a masterplan for anything devious.
We are aware that some people would like to run incursions in the corporation and that they have some difficulties with explaining this to the fleets they join about the wars.
Hence this thread, it can be used by our members to copy paste it in fleet chat for the FC and the logis to see.

It's nothing more than the confirmation from our CEO that we are running a dec shield and thus the FC's and logis have a better chance at judging whether they want to run with our members or not. It is to benefit corpmates as much as other fleets to explain our situation.

Now if you don't want to run with ANY wars what so ever. Fine, that's your choice and fly safe. Smile
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-02-27 19:32:10 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I'm gonna consider this thread just like all the other Incursion recruitment threads that are being created in the wake of Darius 'Killing Mothership and ganking Incursion runners' thread.



Oh will you stfu about Darius, Do you want his ****?

Getting old..

The incursion community does not care.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-02-28 02:55:32 UTC
Herr Ronin wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I'm gonna consider this thread just like all the other Incursion recruitment threads that are being created in the wake of Darius 'Killing Mothership and ganking Incursion runners' thread.



Oh will you stfu about Darius, Do you want his ****?

Getting old..

The incursion community does not care.



lol, find some cheese to go with your whine.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#51 - 2012-02-28 19:15:12 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
This isn't really an explanation to anyone here on the forums or a masterplan for anything devious.
We are aware that some people would like to run incursions in the corporation and that they have some difficulties with explaining this to the fleets they join about the wars.
Hence this thread, it can be used by our members to copy paste it in fleet chat for the FC and the logis to see.

It's nothing more than the confirmation from our CEO that we are running a dec shield and thus the FC's and logis have a better chance at judging whether they want to run with our members or not. It is to benefit corpmates as much as other fleets to explain our situation.

Now if you don't want to run with ANY wars what so ever. Fine, that's your choice and fly safe. Smile


I understand why Amzi/krissada would want help getting into incursions after he helped to gank so many ships & now needs protection from those whom want rightous revenge for his traitorous stranding of them... why anyone would help him I guess is their own business but seems silly to me... I mean fool me once shame on you but fool me twice...
Glad I never got tricked into any of his gank innocent fleets but I would not trust him as far as I could throw him. I've seen the wrecks in his sites with him sitting there until gankers could come & and loot and his denials over convo that he was the infiltraitor I couldn't accept him at his word ever again & openly call him a liar to his face.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#52 - 2012-02-28 21:44:21 UTC
Out of curiousityit seems to me that Imperial Guardians could just set up a bunch of shell alliances (ie: called Imperial Guardians I,Imperial Guardians II, ... , Imperial Guardians VII) for every day of the week to shed wardecks for thier corps since CCP has deemed the war decc system to be so borked they can't keep up with all the exploits petitioned ergo you could be wardeck free by joining & dropping alliances with the 24 hour cooldowns so you don't have to worry about them at all?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Aura Ikku
Imperial Guardians
Tactical Narcotics Team
#53 - 2012-02-28 22:09:22 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Out of curiousityit seems to me that Imperial Guardians could just set up a bunch of shell alliances (ie: called Imperial Guardians I,Imperial Guardians II, ... , Imperial Guardians VII) for every day of the week to shed wardecks for thier corps since CCP has deemed the war decc system to be so borked they can't keep up with all the exploits petitioned ergo you could be wardeck free by joining & dropping alliances with the 24 hour cooldowns so you don't have to worry about them at all?


That's not how it works Darth, not least because its completely impractical to have an alliance exec on24/7. The trick is to stop them war dec'in you in the first place as opposed to dropping the wars as you end up with a cool-down period.

There are a number of issues with what you have proposed. The details of which, people can figure out for themselves. We've been there and I can tell you that, with more newbs than you can shake a stick at, you have to implement a method that works to protect the poor guys until they can defend themselves.

Aura
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#54 - 2012-03-01 01:18:59 UTC
Aura Ikku wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Out of curiousityit seems to me that Imperial Guardians could just set up a bunch of shell alliances (ie: called Imperial Guardians I,Imperial Guardians II, ... , Imperial Guardians VII) for every day of the week to shed wardecks for thier corps since CCP has deemed the war decc system to be so borked they can't keep up with all the exploits petitioned ergo you could be wardeck free by joining & dropping alliances with the 24 hour cooldowns so you don't have to worry about them at all?


That's not how it works Darth, not least because its completely impractical to have an alliance exec on24/7. The trick is to stop them war dec'in you in the first place as opposed to dropping the wars as you end up with a cool-down period.

There are a number of issues with what you have proposed. The details of which, people can figure out for themselves. We've been there and I can tell you that, with more newbs than you can shake a stick at, you have to implement a method that works to protect the poor guys until they can defend themselves.

Aura


What am I missing? While you can't have a single 24/7 alliance exec corp but a few bought alts could be used to add & drop corps( doubt 7 is necessary). Heard stories that POS's are pretty much invulnerable using this trick but I guess they do have another 24 hour reinforced mode. Sure there will be times you'll be wardecc'd for a few hours but it seems worth the effort.
Also now I've heard of an alliance that'll let you add & drop specifically to drop wardeccs. I'msurprised that there are not more charging for this service
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#55 - 2012-03-01 15:28:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ammzi
DarthNefarius wrote:


What am I missing? While you can't have a single 24/7 alliance exec corp but a few bought alts could be used to add & drop corps( doubt 7 is necessary). Heard stories that POS's are pretty much invulnerable using this trick but I guess they do have another 24 hour reinforced mode. Sure there will be times you'll be wardecc'd for a few hours but it seems worth the effort.
Also now I've heard of an alliance that'll let you add & drop specifically to drop wardeccs. I'msurprised that there are not more charging for this service


Well I can explain in detail.
Take the scenario of 7 dec shield alliances and one corporation using it, let's call it corp A.

Corp B would _really_ like to attack corp A and therefore wardecs corp A.
Corp A, drops the alliance right away and joins another alliance - this process takes 24 hours.
In the mean time Corp B has initiated a new war on the second alliance. Corp A drops again.

This will continue, either with just one aggression corporation or several (B,C,D,E).
At one point all 7 alliances have wars and corporation A is now without an alliance, but also vulnerable to wars.
It now gets wardecced again. So it joins one of its alliances, as soon as it does that corp A now has an active war for 24 hours while it leaves that alliance.
As it leaves the alliance a new wardec can be initiated. So it has to shed that war again. They are now at war again.
and again. And again, and again and again again again again.

And alliances cost 1b a piece to create mind you. Big smile
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#56 - 2012-03-01 17:42:09 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
AmmziWell I can explain in detail.
Take the scenario of 7 dec shield alliances and one corporation using it, let's call it corp A.

Corp B would _really_ like to attack corp A and therefore wardecs corp A.
Corp A, drops the alliance right away and joins another alliance - this process takes 24 hours.
In the mean time Corp B has initiated a new war on the second alliance. Corp A drops again.

This will continue, either with just one aggression corporation or several (B,C,D,E).
At one point all 7 alliances have wars and corporation A is now without an alliance, but also vulnerable to wars.
It now gets wardecced again. So it joins one of its alliances, as soon as it does that corp A now has an active war for 24 hours while it leaves that alliance.
As it leaves the alliance a new wardec can be initiated. So it has to shed that war again. They are now at war again.
and again. And again, and again and again again again again.

And alliances cost 1b a piece to create mind you. [:=d wrote:


OK 1-2 billion isk doable but 7 is isn't cheap i accept that as a good point... if your explaination was right on however then we'd have POS's in hi sec vulnerable which they are not if diligent enough I've been told. Seems to me either the people after you quit after the 2nd to 3rd shedding due to lack of determination or something else is going on. I think I'm still missing something here unless its the POS reinforcement period that's doubling the effective 'invulnerable' time from 24 hours to 48? I've never tried to take down these hi sec POS's but have been told by a few that do that they are invulnerable due to corps unending adding and dropping of alliances shedding of war decc's.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#57 - 2012-03-01 18:57:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ammzi
DarthNefarius wrote:

OK 1-2 billion isk doable but 7 is isn't cheap i accept that as a good point... if your explaination was right on however then we'd have POS's in hi sec vulnerable which they are not if diligent enough I've been told. Seems to me either the people after you quit after the 2nd to 3rd shedding due to lack of determination or something else is going on. I think I'm still missing something here unless its the POS reinforcement period that's doubling the effective 'invulnerable' time from 24 hours to 48? I've never tried to take down these hi sec POS's but have been told by a few that do that they are invulnerable due to corps unending adding and dropping of alliances shedding of war decc's.


Large towers go into reinforce for a max of 1 day + 17 hours. That means you can drop the war, rep the POS, then if you get engaged again the POS will need to be reinforced again, and again. Etc. because you will never be at war with the corporation if they do it right when the POS comes out of reinforce.
But yeah, I can't go into specifics with ourselves, but this is really the most effective so far. It's the same as eve university is utilizing.
yopparai
ASTARTES CORP
Hashashin Cartel
#58 - 2012-03-01 21:01:07 UTC
Using the DecShield tactic is for douche bags therefore Imperial guardians are all douche bags.

Confirm/Deny?

Yopp
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#59 - 2012-03-01 21:08:58 UTC
BLSHL is willing to become one of these "false wardec corps".

I'm AA++ trustable.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#60 - 2012-03-02 11:53:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Ammzi
yopparai wrote:
Using the DecShield tactic is for douche bags therefore Imperial guardians are all douche bags.

Confirm/Deny?

Yopp


Come
at
me
bro.

PS: Please don't.