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Grinding Security Status - don't make it harder
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Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-02-17 14:39:23 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Important point there.... Some of us. Some people do give a **** about Empire and Low-Sec. Your implication that nullsec is the game is completely ignorant. Nullsec is a large part of the game but sec status has NOTHING to do with it so your argument is somewhat flawed.

As has been stated in MANY other threads where is it you null sec chaps get your vast amount of low end minerals from?? Well, from reading forum posts it sounds like a lot buy them from empire and ship them to nullsec. Thus, high sec miners mine your minerals. Not all minerals come from the drone regions and a lot of non cap stuff is actually produced in Empire.


Actually- from what I understand, the Russian botting empire farms Drone Regions day and night, hauls the crystals to 'Pubbie Space' (i.e. High Sec) and Refines them into minerals, then places them on the market, to be purchased by the larger nullsec alliances that can't be bothered to mine out the minerals necessary to build titans and supercarriers.

I'm really curious as to what the monthly isotope usage is jumping all that nonsense around. For the record, based on recent statistics (find it yourself, I'm not citing it) 63% of all PvP in the game takes place in Null. While actual occupancy leads to 61% in Empire; this may look like you bears are the more popular 'play style' but in reality, most people that live in Null have 3-4 accounts and almost 3 alts a piece in Empire. I'd be interested to see a study based on IP Addresses or even Registered Email Addresses of the number of accounts/characters that belong to a Null Main.

I'm sure you will try and refute this saying that Mission Runners and Empire Miners are the Majority of this game, but your wrong mate. The combined 34% of people that live in Null/LowSec and the 5% in Wormholes alts that live in Empire probably make up a large portion of that figure. So keep fighting the good fight about suicide ganking and how the game is dependant on Empire dwellers while ignoring the simple fact that 20 times more ISK is destroyed in Null Sec in a single day, then is destroyed in Empire in a single week.
Jisu Viscera
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-02-17 14:54:52 UTC
Funkert wrote:
SEC RATTING DID NOT GET ANY HARDER FOR THEM EVIL PIRATES
it does not take any longer, the rats still give the same boost, and crimes still take the same amount back.
And 99% of the people do it solo anyways so nothing changes.

so i will not get punished 'more',
i will not have to rat 'more',
it will take me same amount of time it always does
to GET BACK IN HISEC AND START MURDERING PEOPLE UNDER CONCORD'S NOSES


OP disagrees with you...

Quote:
b) grinding security status is slow and painful at the best of times; this change makes corporate roams through 0.0 to grind security status and kill the unwary much less fruitful

This is not an issue for those who want to go full pirate (-5.0 and beyond), but for those of us who are trying to keep our security status up it is a problem.


If it was "slow and painful" before, what is it now?

And you're actually confusing me with this kind of talk... Congratulations, I guess...

Quote:
Jesus H spacechrist..... i give up after this but did you guys really not read any of the posts from start to end?


Quote:
edit: my point is, i appreciate that y'all are so willing to share your views on crime and punishment in EVE in general, but this thread is not about that. This is about a tiny change that ccp implemented without reason that will only frustrate pirates and carebears alike in very rare cases*


The "tiny change without warning" was only one part of it - I was responding to the other part where he didn't like what changed, regardless of how the change came about.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#43 - 2012-02-17 16:16:11 UTC
Xolve wrote:

I'm really curious as to what the monthly isotope usage is jumping all that nonsense around. For the record, based on recent statistics (find it yourself, I'm not citing it) 63% of all PvP in the game takes place in Null. While actual occupancy leads to 61% in Empire; this may look like you bears are the more popular 'play style' but in reality, most people that live in Null have 3-4 accounts and almost 3 alts a piece in Empire. I'd be interested to see a study based on IP Addresses or even Registered Email Addresses of the number of accounts/characters that belong to a Null Main.

I'm sure you will try and refute this saying that Mission Runners and Empire Miners are the Majority of this game, but your wrong mate....

blah blah blah....


I would just like to point out, there are hi-sec natives with as much if not more accounts than 5 per head that don't play your version of Eve. Who log on purely to jew isk and then log off.

So maybe that study should be done before you go around making sensational statements like that.....

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-02-17 16:44:23 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
I would just like to point out, there are hi-sec natives with as much if not more accounts than 5 per head that don't play your version of Eve. Who log on purely to jew isk and then log off.

So maybe that study should be done before you go around making sensational statements like that.....



There are just as many dead-weight jews in 0.0 as there are in High Sec... doing the same ****, botting it the hell up.

Havalok
The Executioners
#45 - 2012-02-18 06:27:46 UTC
Well if it wasnt announced as a change, this should be viewed as a bug.

If it was intended announce the change officiallly.
Mane Frehm
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#46 - 2012-02-21 02:04:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mane Frehm
I am quite impressed by CCP's recognition of this issue and their responsiveness. Well done!


*************************************************


Sorry folks - above was my planned answer as we are now supposed to be dealing with "new improved" CCP. Sadly this issue has had no further response of any kind, and so the problem remains. Holding off going full bitter as I'm sure they are hard at work isolating the problem, and have been just too busy to let anyone know.
Mane Frehm
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#47 - 2012-02-22 14:59:53 UTC
Updating this thread as I have now received a reply from CCP confirming that there was no intended change to the security status mechanism in Crucible and they are unable to determine if there was an unintended change, and requesting a bug report.

A few thoughts:

1. Bug report incoming. Will be a bit of a challenge to find a date and time when multiple players got the sec bump pre Crucible as I do a lot of ratting, but I'll find it.

2. I absolutely understand the challenge of reviewing a large/complex/legacy code base to determine what (if anything) changed. No problem with CCP needing to take some time.

3. The security status mechanism is now inconsistent for groups. Currently everyone on a PvP kill takes a security hit, but only 1 player in a group gets a security bump for killing a rat. Mechanism should be consistent one way or the other...and the suggestion made about getting a security status bump for killing a -5.0 player is worthy of considreration.

4. And a suggestion - there are still some improvements needed to communications protocols for GMs/CCP. There have to be a lot of petitions/questions on many many issues, but in many (most?) cases players are just left hanging - did CCP understand the concern...are they working on it....will I ever hear back from them? I first raised this issue back on February 7, over 2 weeks ago. Is 2 weeks a reasonable time frame for a detailed response? As of now, no one knows.

And so, I give you "service standards". CCP should establish a standard time frame for responses ( you will normally get a response to your petition within X working days), and regularly keep/publish metrics about how well they are meeting those standards. This will help manage expectations for players and CCP alike.


Stay tuned.......
Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-02-22 15:31:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Karah Serrigan
Tchulen wrote:
If you want to kill people in policed space you should expect to be an outlaw. Personally I think this is a good change. If you want to kill people without losing sec status go to space which isn't policed by CONCORD. If you don't care about being an outlaw/pirate keep on killing people in policed space. Simples!



Hey mate, i would like to quickly grab the opportunity to elaborate on this:
If i want to PvP without losing sec status i should go to space which is not policed by CONCORD.
Space of such properties would be any nullsec system absent of a CONCORD outpost and every wormhole system.
But here comes the crux:
If i want to rat my sec status back up, i have to go to space which has juicy battleship class rats without the need to accept missions because i might not have the standings for any level 4 or level 5 missions.
Now guess which space this would be? You're right, its nullsec. And guess whats so special about nullsec? Its absent of CONCORD.
Now to combine both statements: If i want to not have my sec status affected negatively, i have to go space where CONCORD is absent so they cant "trace" my crimes and i want to have my sec status affected positively i have to go to space where CONCORD is absent so they can "trace" my good deeds.

Now i would like you to answer this in all honesty: do you think this makes any sense?

And now please dont try to dodge the question with a statement such as: "You can also kill rats in lowsec". Yes, yes you can. And you could also run level 3 missions and have all level 4 missions being banned from highsec, how would you like that?
whaynethepain
#49 - 2012-02-26 17:11:37 UTC
I accidently a pod a while back, in empire, and took a sec hit.

I have been orbiting cans in heavens firing F.O.F. missiles at rats in my drake for about 5 hrs now, and I'm bored, really really bored, the rats are bored, and the jet cans are bored. Boringly bored. Some waves of rats just sit and take it without a reaction.

Even trolling through the forums and playing another game while waiting for "the module has run outa charges" voice, is not helping, will be using one of my 5 alts next time, probly train one up specially, I learnt my lesson CCP.

I would much prefer to mine piwates, or characters who themselves are accident-prone too, maybe add a little immersion and player content to the security thing.

I think anyone should be able to have a bounty on their pod, for any in-game actions, it only bothers implant users anyhow, and adds to "status", we can really expand on the feature by placing pod bounty kills more easily, in game, for any transgression.

Also give me some of that piwate sec status from getting the baddies, and we can all go play nicely together again, I would be happy stalking around Low-Sec looking for "reds" and "orange" characters, to chew on, anything but this can circling, please CCP, pleeeease.

It may even be worth getting a fleet together to go bust a piwate gate camp for sec status sometime, do some vigilante work at the weekends etc..

The mechanics look in place already, just not stitched together very contemporarily, and used ironically by some.

Getting you on your feet.

So you've further to fall.
Mane Frehm
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#50 - 2012-03-06 22:11:02 UTC
******************* Update March 6, 2012*************
I received the following reply to this bug report:

Hello and thank you for your report. However, the behaviour described was changed so that only the person laying the final blow to the killed NPC is credited for the kill and therefore gains sec status. Regards, BH Mozgalom

Thank you for confirming that a change was made. However, I still have major concerns here as the information that this was changing was not included in the patch notes, nor were your GM colleagues advised. Furthermore, with this change you have now made game behaviour different between killing rats (only the final blow gets the security status increase) and killing players (all players involved in the kill take the full security status penalty). Please review and adjust one or the other. I will also be posting this to my petitions, the in game forums and to Failheap Challenge.

Thank you.
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