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[Proposal] Name Changing

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Author
Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
#41 - 2011-09-15 07:57:39 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
...
There was a thread recently about someone cyber-stalking a woman(?) and her teenage son. It was suggested that they sell their characters and get new ones. That harassment would follow those characters. Giving someone the option to simply rename the character at the time of purchase would allow them to break that sort of behavior.

If reputation is such a big deal in Eve, should you really be able to transfer a character's reputation when the rules clearly state you can't pretend to be the same person?


according to Terms of Service, harassment is against the rules of EVE. any player that is harassed has all rights to demand that CCP protects them. i wouldn't be against special actions for special circumstances (think witness protection program), but this is not scope of OP.
Kaelie Onren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2011-09-15 11:13:25 UTC
So we should change the whole system for a pathelogical case that happens once in a blue moon?
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2011-09-15 13:27:38 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
but... how will I mock corpmates who buy n00bpwnr01 if they can just change the name? DO NOT LIKE.


This is exactly why you should not have been voted into the CSM. Downvoting a good idea for a simply stupid and ignorant reason just reinforces my impression of you being an idiot.

I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way...


Agreed with the OP and "Liked". If properly implemented this can be a good thing for both the community and CCP. I personally have no problem with my name or any of the names of any of my alts but I know quite a few people who wouldn't mind changing thier names. CCP...there is profit to be had here!

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#44 - 2011-09-15 16:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Katie Frost wrote:
I think that the pro's of allowing 'Name Changing' far outweigh the con's and I am yet to see an argument in this thread that suggests otherwise. The minor inconvenience that would be caused by checking a character's AKA tab, as you would with employment history for instance should not act as a barrier to add this highly sought-after feature.


*IF* any such feature existed outside of the character transfer mechanic, it should be cosmetic only, in that a name change would not remove you from anyone's contact list. In fact, I'd go so far as to automatically append a contact list entry with (aka ________) so they easily know who they're seeing.

i agree that in Eve, reputation is an asset and a major part of the game. Your actions SHOULD be forever tied to you. However, when a character is bought off the bazaar, YOU are not the one responsible for that character's previous actions. If you buy a toon who has scammed people for billions, you shouldn't inherit all the hate that goes with it just because there wasn't anything Google could find about them.

Of course then there's the problem of transferring toons between accounts to rename...not sure how I'd handle that. Wiping out their contact list would be a start...if you get a free pass off everyone's contact list you shouldn't be able to keep yours.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
#45 - 2011-09-15 18:48:54 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
...

i agree that in Eve, reputation is an asset and a major part of the game. Your actions SHOULD be forever tied to you. However, when a character is bought off the bazaar, YOU are not the one responsible for that character's previous actions. If you buy a toon who has scammed people for billions, you shouldn't inherit all the hate that goes with it just because there wasn't anything Google could find about them.
...


but then transfer becomes way to clear bad rep. simply transfer your character to another account you own, and get free card out of jail. there is simply no way to know who is behind character. that's why rep has to stay with character at all times.
Loki Sei
#46 - 2011-09-15 19:25:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Loki Sei
I would not support this unless it was extremely costly, or could happen on a very infrequent basis. Maybe there needs to be a better warning when you originally name the character that this is forever.

The name in Eve is how you are known and should be constant. Unless they come up with a heck of a lot more icons or some way to make notes on a character appear when hovered over in local, I would have a hard time accepting the ability to change names.

Also, when recruiting, this is going to add a lot more time and effort to check backgrounds. Forum Searches on every name they ever used, google search on every name they have used would make it harder to do a proper background check.

I assume each name could still not be reused, so more and more names are going to be tied up, which will lead to more and more use of stupid characters in the name making it even harder to search and remember a person.

Overall this is such a minor feature, would require some serious additions to the game and add very little in return to gameplay. Let CCP concentrate on more important matters than intorducing a name change mechanism.
evilphoenix
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#47 - 2011-09-15 21:04:59 UTC
As to my suggestion ao name change forum, similar to the character bazaar.

An easily searchable forum where when a name is changed, you have to post.

*sample post*

Name changed from anewb to noob.

*end sample post*

I think it is unnecessary, but everyone seems to believe they can stalk the person whom first podded them based on their character name.

If you are so scared about people scamming you then don't accept characters that have had name changed, seems like a simple policy to me.

*sample policy*

recruitment note - we will not be accepting characters whom have used the name change feature within the last 6 months.

*end sample policy*

I propose that everyone for this ability demonstrate how easy it is to scam those whom are against the ability using one of the other ways. Like creating a trial alt, creating a regular alt, buying a new charater using the character transfer, hire someone to do it, or become a corp thief with your main. I think that covers it, but I'm sure there are other creative people out there.

On the issue of lowsec pirates, maybe check their sec status? Check local and see if anyone has GCC? Seems like a whole lot less work than remembering a dozen names.

I've had several characters over the years and most who knew me then still call me by my origional character's name.

If reputation based on character name is so important to you, then don't chage your name!
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2011-09-15 23:09:38 UTC
Loki Sei wrote:
I would not support this unless it was extremely costly, or could happen on a very infrequent basis. Maybe there needs to be a better warning when you originally name the character that this is forever.

The name in Eve is how you are known and should be constant. Unless they come up with a heck of a lot more icons or some way to make notes on a character appear when hovered over in local, I would have a hard time accepting the ability to change names.

Also, when recruiting, this is going to add a lot more time and effort to check backgrounds. Forum Searches on every name they ever used, google search on every name they have used would make it harder to do a proper background check.

I assume each name could still not be reused, so more and more names are going to be tied up, which will lead to more and more use of stupid characters in the name making it even harder to search and remember a person.

Overall this is such a minor feature, would require some serious additions to the game and add very little in return to gameplay. Let CCP concentrate on more important matters than intorducing a name change mechanism.


This crappy forum ate my original post... ><

Anywho, here is a quick summary:

1) If it was ISK, yes I agree it should be very costly. If it was real money, it should be no more than a character transfer fee is currently for example. And again no ***** aurum thnx. I would also go as far as supporting a 24-month timer on name changes.

2) Instead of icons, alerts and air-horns going off whenever somebody that had name-changed jumped into system - how about an AKA tab in the character sheet? If you have the person set as red, you are likely to double click them anyway if they were unfamiliar to you. Likewise I would support a contact-list update when name-change is made.

3) Background checking should not take you more than a couple minutes more with name changing allowed on 12- or 24-month basis. Also, please do not work on the assumption that everyone in EVE will instantly change their name if this feature was implemented.

4) I agree that not having the ability to re-use a changed name would decrease the pool of available names to new players. But bear in mind that having the ability to have 2 alts on your character is probably a far greater name-pool-sink than name-changing could ever be.

Again, not everyone will instantly use this feature and pay $ to change their name, knowing that it is a purely cosmetic feature. However, having the option to do so may allow some players that bought characters or would like a change of their name for superficial reasons to do so.

5) I am no DEV, but adding an AKA tab in the character sheet and updating contact lists when a name-change is implemented does not seem like an awful lot of work as everything else remains the same. Even if it took some more significant implementation, the earning potential of this feature should certainly be an inticing factor for CCP.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#49 - 2011-09-15 23:35:56 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Jagga Spikes wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
...

i agree that in Eve, reputation is an asset and a major part of the game. Your actions SHOULD be forever tied to you. However, when a character is bought off the bazaar, YOU are not the one responsible for that character's previous actions. If you buy a toon who has scammed people for billions, you shouldn't inherit all the hate that goes with it just because there wasn't anything Google could find about them.
...


but then transfer becomes way to clear bad rep. simply transfer your character to another account you own, and get free card out of jail. there is simply no way to know who is behind character. that's why rep has to stay with character at all times.


....which is pretty much what I said in the last line that you cut out of the quote, and the one misgiving I'd have for implementing this at all.

Of course, it's also quite possible to purchase yourself a clean rep now by simply selling your toon and buying a new one. If reputation is so critical that no one should ever be allowed to work under a different name, alts shouldn't exist and we should all have only one identity.

This gets....complicated.

edit: I'm going to take the slippery slope down the "reputation MUSt be maintained" line just to show how far it can go. Don't think I'm trying to invalidate the argument, I just want to show how many ways "reputation" is diluted now.

We shouldn't allow name changes because reputation is very important.
-- But toons can be transferred and sold, meaning a person with a bad reputation can buy a "clean" toon
We shouldn't allow character transfers at all, because people shouldn't be able to get that clean slate.
-- But a you can have multiple accounts, one with a good reputation and the other doing all the bad stuff, sometimes to "friends" of the good guy.
We shouldn't allow multiple accounts, because it allows you to do things without them impacting your reputation.
-- But you can create three toons on one account, so they can still do that, just not at the same time.
We should restrict accounts to one toon per account.
-- But if someone ruins their own reputation, they can biomass and start over.
We should stop the ability to biomass toons.

The only way for reputation to really, REALLY matter is for you to only ever be allowed one Eve character. If you can biomass, you can reset your reputation. If you can make alts, you can engage in nefarious activities without spoiling your "good" reputation. If you can trade characters, you can buy toons with good reputations regardless of how you've acted for years.

I'm not advocating for a world where we can change our names for free whenever we want. I'm just saying that this idea that your name is somehow forever tied to your actions in Eve is a myth.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Paulize Dn'Injer
#50 - 2011-09-16 01:02:45 UTC
Loki Sei wrote:
I would not support this unless it was extremely costly, or could happen on a very infrequent basis. Maybe there needs to be a better warning when you originally name the character that this is forever.

The name in Eve is how you are known and should be constant. Unless they come up with a heck of a lot more icons or some way to make notes on a character appear when hovered over in local, I would have a hard time accepting the ability to change names.

Also, when recruiting, this is going to add a lot more time and effort to check backgrounds. Forum Searches on every name they ever used, google search on every name they have used would make it harder to do a proper background check.

I assume each name could still not be reused, so more and more names are going to be tied up, which will lead to more and more use of stupid characters in the name making it even harder to search and remember a person.

Overall this is such a minor feature, would require some serious additions to the game and add very little in return to gameplay. Let CCP concentrate on more important matters than intorducing a name change mechanism.


I agree that there needs to be a warning

Your name is not 'constant.' See Character Transfers and alts -- they've been around forever and the world has not ended

If you're even considering doing a background check on someone with more than one or two aliases you're doing it wrong

Most of these names will be changed for a reason -- they're undesirable.

To some it may be minor, to others it may be essential (roleplayers) or even encouraging to continue paying and playing (people with "unfortunate" names) -- no matter what the case, it is profitable!
Saraie
Relocation Production Equipment and Resupply
#51 - 2011-09-16 13:10:26 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
One's name is everything. Corp thieves can be identified using that, as can reputation, as a whole. I know from entering local who people are, known pirates, etc. I really don't feel like going over history everytime I see a new name. Corp history or "AKAs" do not quite cover it.

Character transfers, tough luck, if you buy a character you're supposed to do some due diligence on that guy's history.

The only thing name changes are acceptable, to me, is typos or capitalization, and GMs already allow that. The former soon after creation, the latter pretty much anytime I believe.

So, no...

PS: this topic was discussed during CSM 3, check the minutes to hear the arguments for and against etc.


Does an ingame name identify a corp thief, or the avatar that a corp thief was playing?
If the avatar is no longer owned by the "real person" who committed a theft...is that avatar, under its new owner, still a corp thief?

The name of the avatar, tells you absolutely nothing about who is playing the avatar. And with how easy it is to transfer a toon, the history you think you know about an avatar, is ultimately meaningless.
Paulize Dn'Injer
#52 - 2011-09-17 21:46:46 UTC
Yawn... do all the CSM just post and run?
evilphoenix
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#53 - 2011-09-19 13:20:14 UTC
With CCP needing additional revenue sources, this seems like a home run. It would seem it should be easy to implement. I would think it could even be implemented using the petition system and require that much less programming to make it automated.

With all of the nay-sayers whom complain of reputation and corp thieft, I still don't see any potential argument that would justify not allowing this feature. There are simply to many other ways to become someone else, this would simply become yet another way.

The only 'problem' I see with it is people changing their name from anewb to znewb so they're not primary.... It still makes CCP money and it will allow you to make fun of people with names like zzzzzzzzzznewb.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2011-09-19 17:18:29 UTC
I was at first giving the current CSM the benifit of the doubt despite the chairman and his less than stellar reputation regarding all things EvE...however...I am completely convinced now that it is all about the Goonswarm agenda. Pretty much every post I see from a CSM rep is drivel and nonsense. I would much rather see a post from a Dev who has some common sense then some "wannabe attorney" CSM rep.

So...any Dev want to make a meaningful comment in this thread?

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Jag Kara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2011-09-19 17:18:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jag Kara
Paulize Dn'Injer wrote:
Essential Features of Name Changing: These are "must have's"

  • AKA (or Alias, Name History, etc.) Tab – Similar to the Employment History tab it’s a record of name change permanently tied to that character
  • Searchability – If "Bob" changes his name to "Steve" searching “Bob” will link to “Steve”
  • Transfer of Standings – "Bob" is red to me; now that "Bob" has changed his name to "Steve" he will still be red to me. Red is red (odds are he won’t want to cuddle)
  • Fee – I could care less what the amount is or whether it is ISK, PLEX, Aurum, Dollars/Euros, etc. Whatever level it is set to must be an effective deterrent to keep name changing from being a more efficient method of nefarious activity than the plentiful existing methods. Additionally, it must in part pay for itself (customer service, R&D, execution, etc.)
  • Frequency – A name may be changed only after x amount of time (commonly a year between renaming). If a person wants to change their name every week, odds are it isn’t for a legitimate reason

Personally, i think this could be slimmed down by simply giving all players a number (which already exists as far as i know). This number would be used in linking profiles, setting standings, etc. As an example "Bob" AKA "Registered Capsuleer 208456" changes his name to "Steve", like wise known as "Registered Capsuleer 208456", will auto be associated with "Bob" based on their ID number.

This would make it much easier to distinguish between people too, as to search someone it could go from looking up "Bob" and recieving results on every one with the combination of letters bob and having to search for them, to just looking up 208456 and having no confusion.

This method could similarily be applied to alliances and corps, as they would be easily trackable with it. As well as it would open the possibility of allowing possible repeats of names, as confusion can be prevented by the numerical difference between characters. (not that im looking to see 500 john smiths in the john smith corp, show up in a battle and having to call primaries.)
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2011-09-19 17:21:15 UTC
Jag Kara wrote:
Paulize Dn'Injer wrote:
Essential Features of Name Changing: These are "must have's"

  • AKA (or Alias, Name History, etc.) Tab – Similar to the Employment History tab it’s a record of name change permanently tied to that character
  • Searchability – If "Bob" changes his name to "Steve" searching “Bob” will link to “Steve”
  • Transfer of Standings – "Bob" is red to me; now that "Bob" has changed his name to "Steve" he will still be red to me. Red is red (odds are he won’t want to cuddle)
  • Fee – I could care less what the amount is or whether it is ISK, PLEX, Aurum, Dollars/Euros, etc. Whatever level it is set to must be an effective deterrent to keep name changing from being a more efficient method of nefarious activity than the plentiful existing methods. Additionally, it must in part pay for itself (customer service, R&D, execution, etc.)
  • Frequency – A name may be changed only after x amount of time (commonly a year between renaming). If a person wants to change their name every week, odds are it isn’t for a legitimate reason

Personally, i think this could be slimmed down by simply giving all players a number (which already exists as far as i know). This number would be used in linking profiles, setting standings, etc. As an example "Bob" AKA "Registered Capsuleer 208456" changes his name to "Steve", like wise known as "Registered Capsuleer 208456", will auto be associated with "Bob" based on their ID number.

This would make it much easier to distinguish between people too, as to search someone it could go from looking up "Bob" and recieving results on every one with the combination of letters bob and having to search for them, to just looking up 208456 and having no confusion.

This method could similarily be applied to alliances and corps, as they would be easily trackable with it.


That isn't a bad idea at all. Would said ID number be something the pilot knows? This might allow for duplicate names which I think would be freaking cool. Ruining somebody els's rep...lol Fun times. If you know what your number is you can have someone add you to contacts or email or whatever using said number instead of the name to clear up any confusion with duplicate names.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Jag Kara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2011-09-19 17:24:09 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
That isn't a bad idea at all. Would said ID number be something the pilot knows? This might allow for duplicate names which I think would be freaking cool. Ruining somebody els's rep...lol Fun times. If you know what your number is you can have someone add you to contacts or email or whatever using said number instead of the name to clear up any confusion with duplicate names.

That was more or less the idea, if you can track them based on a unique number that will never change, why would you need to worry abut naming confusion.

And yes, you would know it. it could be as simple as next to your name it says your id number.
Xenial Jesse Taalo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2011-09-20 21:01:28 UTC
I messed up my original name and spent weeks trying to think of a new one, feeling the pressure of it. It pretty much broke the experience for me.

Ultimately any problems that people can think up with name changing are problems with solutions, and not even difficult solutions.

I particularly like the "cooling off" idea.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2011-09-21 04:13:56 UTC
sorry but part of the consequence of doing crap to ruin the rep of a character is the destruction of the sale value. Allowing people to change identities at all will allow people to use this as an exploit to avoid any consequence of actions other than a small service fee.

I vote no friggon way!

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#60 - 2011-09-21 09:25:16 UTC
At one point the game didn't allow more than two word in character name and it also didn't allow any punctuation marks.

There are people with typos in there character names.

These are valid reasons to have one's name corrected, by a petition and GM intervention.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos