EVE General Discussion

if you don't want combat you can stay in your cq, which is 100% safe like ship spinning. i would also expect everybody to be packing heat so they can defend themselves or gank.

Yes, stations are indeed currently 100% safe from FiS pvp (well NPC stations anyway - player owned outposts can be taken/lost).

What has that resulted in? Docking Games. People sit on a station and grief/gank using neutral remote repair - some even do this with a carrier! Outlaws are able to use insta-undocks and safe spots to operate out of hisec stations and avoid CONCORD while suicide ganking people. Because of the huge docking radius of Caldari stations ships are able to dock/undock repeatedly to annoy the hell out of anyone trying to camp them.

You just have to look at the current game to see that supposedly "safe" stations don't necessarily make for desirable gameplay and certainly don't prevent griefing/ganking as you suggest.

You've highlighted my exact point. When WiS arrives THIS MUST CHANGE. Why?



As John McCreedy says WiS must be a seamless extension to FiS - not a completely different game. It's got to look and feel like EvE inside and outside the stations and that means nonconsensual pvp aswell as pve and everything else. Allowing SOME kind of pvp in stations doesn't lead directly to a free-for-all warzone. As I said, it should be an extension of the current mechanics so hisec stations would remain relatively safe compared to lowsec/null.

I'm not a fan of suicide ganking or grief play myself and currently think it's far too easy in empire but that's a separate issue which results from the current game mechanics that CCP could fix if they wanted to (It wasn't always this easy). That has very little to do with whether we should have avatar pvp in WiS or not.



As to what form it should/could take - I'm open to suggestions....
What do you suggest instead?

What we don't need is a whole new arena of gameplay inside 100% safe stations so that pod pilots (we're ALL potentially pilots whether we actually choose to undock or not) decide they'd rather stay safe with WiS rather than take the risk of FiS. Such a scenario would become carebear central very quickly. We already have too many playes concentrated in empire hirsec while lowsec and nullsec remain relatively empty. The so called EvE "Exodus" never really happened! Adding WiS with only PvE content will only make this situation even worse.

Imagine JITA local with scammers/spammers who never have to undock and can operate with 100% impunity while playing poker or whatever. It doesn't even bear thinking about! Now instead imagine that (after spending some ISK and getting some Intel) you could actually find the guy who sold you a Raven advertised as a CNR and beat the crap out of him.

I know which JITA I'd prefer :) I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

As for players doing suicide gank's in high sec and then escaping Concord, that's an exploit which should be reported asap. If it is indeed happening, then CCP needs to fix that problem asap.

High sec gate / station camping is due to broken game mechanics. Basically that's loitering and in any civilized community, those doing that would be questioned by the authorities and then told to vacate the area, if not then they would be issued a fine, then forcibly removed and possibly detained, especially in a high security environment.

As I said earlier, I'm not going to participate in WiS content if my Avatar can be ganked in high security stations, plain and simple. If that's allowed, then it's not high security. If I wanted to play a 'Free for all' FPS PvP game, I definitely wouldn't be playing Eve.

Since my main clone has implants, I'm not going to clone jump just to go check out high security WiS for 15 minutes due to a possible suicide gank on my Avatar and then wait 24 hrs to jump back into my main clone again. I'm sorry but that is unacceptable. Besides that, a high skilled character is going to pay a lot more ISK to upgrade their Medical Clone compared to a low skilled character. That alone opens up the door to having mass amounts of low skilled Avatar Attack Alt's being created.

Those saying they want non-consensual PvP action in WiS high security stations are actually advocating grief play. If allowed they would probably have a Terrorist Avatar fit up a Bomb Vest under it's Jacket and blow up half the station killing 100 Avatars all at the same time.

Sorry, I'm not paying $15 a month subscription fee to have my Avatar open to free ganking if I walk out of my CQ in a high security station. I'm sure there's a lot of other players who feel the same way.

So stay in your ship and stfu already.

Re: DeMichael Crimson and Indahmawar Fazmarai

With you two desiring WIS to be completely kill free and a safe haven for all, you two may push players normally not interested in that aspect of the game to ~force~ CCP to parallel the FIS aspect of the game just so they can take pot shots at those targets you two are painting on your backs...

Isn't that what they have desired all the time?? I do hope CCP is smarter than that though or they will kill EVE.

First of all, both of you are completely wrong but nice try at trolling. I was talking about high security WiS and to be fair I never said make it 100% completely safe. I had previously posted a proposal pertaining to WiS high security combat which was immediately attacked. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=821588#post821588

But hey, keep twisting my statements around. The ones that will kill Eve are players like you who advocate non-consensual PvP everywhere at anytime. If CCP does make high security WiS into a 'Free for all' FPS, good luck trying to get me. However there's one thing you can count on, I'll definitely create a team of low skilled Avatar Attack Alt's which will be camping a few different CQ's.

You'll definitely be singing a different tune after your Avatars get hit a few times.

So what you are asking for is a space version of the Sims?

Why wouldn't CCP release whole categories of new skills that revolve around station life? Defensive skills that boost your personal mental and physical body? Offensive skills that boost your combat effectiveness? Bodyguard skills similar to Drones that can protect you from sudden attacks? Marketing and Trading skills that allow players to build those establishments? Social skills for the mere chance to interact with infamous NPC characters in the lore history?

Then there are potentially whole avenues for manufacturing skills involving fashion design with casual, combat, and every other type of dress wear as an occasion will see fit. Or cybernetic enhancements for both defensive and offensive boosts similar to what was found in the Shadowrun universe? Personal side arms could be another whole manufacturing route too. Then the more exotic "modules" to add to your body like personal force fields as but an example.

To be completely risk aversion while being a squishy flesh form in a station goes against the core of Eve. Yes, high security stations should be safer that low or even null security "public" stations - have a similar Concord presence parallel to FIS. But to be afraid to loose _anything_ once out of the pod?

You're playing the wrong game in my humble opinion.

Because if we have a concord system in a high sec station then some idiots would at some point try to use weapons to suicide people.

From that point it is not far to imagine some idiots , well probably a few goons, firing AoE weapons in a station environment while wearing a self crafted towel on their head and screaming something about god.

From this point it could get CCP into legal trouble, at the very least the teen-rating for EVE would be removed and at worst it could result in a ban in several countries. I would not want to go down that route.

No weapons in WiS. It must be forbidden in WiS by CONCORD and we would be scanned every time we enter public area.
IF there must be the way to kill person that would be personal attacks - brake a neck of person or male attack.
AND it have to be much more heavy sanctioned then in space.