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Killboards: what additional data would be cool?

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Karbowiak
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-02-24 09:48:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Karbowiak
Personally i think the way mails are now are almost perfect, more information would clutter it up too much, less would make it harder to generate stats.

The few fixes / additions i'd like to see tho is:

1. A killmail hash, so they can be verified if they were not posted via the API (Just a yes/no is needed)
2. Timestamps that go to the second, not the minute
3. Pod's clone grade
4. Show if a BPO or a BPC is either one (Currently, it doesn't show this on the raw mail, only via API)

This one isn't really about the killmails themselves, but more of an API thing in general
5. The Item API, should make it so we can look up id, description, etc. etc. etc. via ID _AND_ Name (Currently only ID works) - This way we pretty much don't need to rely that much on the datadump being given to us beforehand


To everyone else:
It isn't doable showing Logistic ships on the mail, due to them not firing on the victim, so to all of you who want that, forget it.
Neither is it doable showing everyone in a fleet and whatnot, mostly cause the raw killmail doesn't show this, nor should it.

All of this is up to the individual killboard software of handling..
So please, if you have no knowledge of the RAW KILLMAIL, but only what you'd like a killboard to show, stop posting, and start telling the EVE-ID developers what they should concentrate on (Or look at Kingboard, and start coding, or throwing ideas at Peter Powers and myself on what to put into it)
Lyhanee Rinah
Homeworlds Exploration
#42 - 2012-02-24 10:04:12 UTC

  1. What was in the Ship Maintenance Hanger of a Carrier
  2. What was build inside a CSAA when destroyed.
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-02-24 10:26:22 UTC
logi and boosters
Shellac Brookdale
Cutting Edge Incorporated
#44 - 2012-02-24 11:20:52 UTC
Currently its not easily possible to figure out the exact parties. Thats why people came up with solutions like the battle summary "doctor". There should be a way for ccp to create teams automatically based on standings between alliances. Or at least introduce a flag such as friendly=true to the attackers list so those can be discarded if thats required.
Bloemkoolsaus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-02-24 11:33:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloemkoolsaus
Most important issue for me would be the logi's but don't limit it to logis'. As a wormhole dweller, i see a lot of fights were a couple of scouts play key-roles but never get on grid of the actual fight. I'm sure this is the same for nullsec where you need to get good warpins around the battlefield.
I'm not sure yet how that would work though. For a logi it's `easy` because they have active mods on atleast one of the battles participants, but a scout doens't. Would be VERY nice if a solution is at all possible.


And this one would very welcome aswell:

Peter Powers wrote:
Quite often players, corps or alliances work together on a basis that span over the horizon of those, meaning If for example two alliances hotdrop a third together, we end up with our own api keys not covering our own involvement.
Sharing the API keys on a level where everyone has all keys that are relevant to someone who might or might not get involved with your kills is a nightmare.
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#46 - 2012-02-24 12:42:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Thunk
Change damage to a signed number - weapons do positive damage, repair does negative damage. This gets logis onto mails, but most importantly ranks them as damage dealers are atm.

Add 'extra' bays and the items contained within. Fuel Bays, Ship Mainetenance Hangars, Corporate Hangars. Essentially everything is already in place, mails already show certain containers such as cargo and drones, its just the missing items aren't listed yet.

Timestamps to the second, not rounded down to minute.

X,Y,Z position of victim ship in system. I raised this before sometime between mid 2009 and 2010, it was even raised with the CSM by Mazzilliu. I can't find the thread anymore though I did find a wiki reference: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Common_API_requests_%28CSM%29
I also found the video Mazzilliu produced to help explain what it is and why it's a good idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un6Zm24l3Xo

Most of the work needs to be done by 3rd party devs, but even the lazy ones can cycle through each celestial in a system from mapDenormalize and get the shortest Euclidean metric to see what Celestial the ships are nearest.

Already with the recent API additions for x, y, z positions on assets we can reproduce a POS eg: https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/test.php
And various representations of a system have been available for a while eg: https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/test_new.php?solarID=30001321 (I recommend Chrome or something very fast with JS and canvas)

As some progress with locations has been made with the API, I'm optimistic this may now be added to killmails. Just the victim will do, though it would be nice to have the positions of involved parties too - there will of course be minor things for developers to watch out for. The position of the attacker will either have too be the position he was in when he last struck the victim or the position he was in when the victim exploded. In large fleet fights there could be good reason for this leading to some strange results. (If under fire, the attacker may have warped to save himself so appears 30AU away from what he was shooting, that kind of thing)
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-02-24 12:44:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Welsige
PsyKzz wrote:
This is going to cause hate, but i'm getting this point out there now.

- Remove killmails and leave them API only.
A lot of applications use the api already and with eve online is moving on, by moving things away from user input will can reduce the need for verification and errors.

- As peter said with localisation, remove item names and use IDs...
The rest of the API provides details in this method and we can mix in with a eve static database to get the item names.

- A more accurate damage reading.
I dont know why / if this is limited on the server, but in an ideal world, being able to tell what weapon did what type of damage (eg em/ thermal ) and exactly how much damage was done.

I also think this is a great idea, although it could be somewhat troublesome.


This.

I dont see why in hell killmails are needed. Store the data, allow access to it thru the API for third party app killboards. Killmails are just silly.

If the volume of data is the issue (wich should not be since th ekm's are verifyable), keep just "x" months of data and leave the responsability of keeping historical data for the 3rs party apps.

Also, include in the killmails the relative standings of killer and killed, that might enable better battle reports by allowing apps to more accuratelly separate sides in a fight.

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
Xtover
Cold Moon Destruction.
#48 - 2012-02-24 13:38:44 UTC
Logis on KMs.

X,Y,Z of the kill also.
Arch Stanton's Neighbour
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
#49 - 2012-02-24 14:08:48 UTC
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
Logis onto killmails. Yesterday. Every time a logi fits a gun for harvesting killmails, god kills a kitten.

It would seem to me that this is an excellent reason not to put logis into kms. Let the stupid km-whoring logis fit their guns and let their corps deal with them.
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#50 - 2012-02-24 16:00:12 UTC
Logistics / Remote Assistance & Gang Warfare links.
Insufficient Clone notices on killing someone with an non-updated clone, and what skill they lost.

Some other interesting information would be local count at time of death.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Mad Hops
Perkone
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-02-24 17:01:24 UTC
What would be ideal is if API would track every killmail a pilot was on rather than just laying the final blow on. Of course I'm not sure how plausible this is.

Also, why can API only give kill log information to a single party? Even creating a separate API key for a different killboard results in an error. This is extremely limiting and should be fixed immediately.

I know you said this thread was to focus on non-technical stuff, but I, along with thousands of other pilots, would prefer your efforts to go into these major issues before adding other things.
Asban
Caustic Fantasy League
#52 - 2012-02-24 19:52:55 UTC
OMG give the API everything. Seriously, throw in the whole kitchen sink if a program ask for it. I want to have battle breakdowns where you can tell from landing blows when people enter/left the field. I want to know if there was a period when points broke and the victim had an opportunity to escape. If you throw in the whole kitchen sink creative people can do sooooo much more than simply giving you two columns of ships marking which one's were lost side by side for battle reports.

Give us range, amount of damage, transversal, time stamps on it all. I guarantee if this is made available there will be automated battle reports detailing ACTUAL battles in way more detail in a month or two.

In addition this would allow clever apps to start diagnosing losses automatically for players. Identify mistakes, moments when you could have escaped, or your victim, etc etc. JUST GIVE US EVERYTHING YOU HAVE ON ENCOUNTERS (if a program asks for it). Seriously, the more data you give, the more creative people can be.

The people in this thread saying "they're fine just add X" aren't thinking big enough. GIVE THE API EVERYTHING and make it timestamped so entire battles can be analyzed and a proper postmortem done.
Asban
Caustic Fantasy League
#53 - 2012-02-24 20:36:22 UTC
Maybe I'll try this again a little more calmly and clearly (sorry about the caps and excitement).

Putting technical difficulties aside, let me sketch out what would be pie in the sky, imho.

Every cycle of any mod that affects the ship on any kill should be accessible from the API. Each of these cycles should have timestamps, and all log information possibly available (locations of ships, orientations, speeds, shield/armor/structure/cap levels). For each of these cycles, we should be able to request the 'grid' for that cycle's start, which would contain the positions, orientations and speeds of every ship on the grid of the destroyed ship.

I think that would be enough to build an incredibly fine grained battle report. Very quickly you would see battle analysis tools being built. It would allow FCs to revisit major skirmishes and take close looks at their pilots and the roles they needed to carry out and how well their side did, as well as examine the strategies of their enemies.

Furthermore, battle report authors would have an unprecedented look from which to draw insightful breakdowns of large fleet engagements that they otherwise simply don't have the time and perspective to capture and recount in hindsight. Additionally, folks could start building automated battle reporters. Imagine battle reports far more descriptive than the ones we currently see that are just columns of involved parties.

Obviously this is a lot, but you asked us to ignore technical considerations. The goal of a KM API revamp should be to allow a machine or a person to revisit an entire engagement and examine it from critical angles and tell the engagement's story. A greatly expanded KM API would really be very exciting.
umaya
State War Academy
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-02-25 00:08:15 UTC
Show all the stuff that got destroyed on the ship, including potential cargo hangers, ship hangers, ore bays etc.. etc..
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#55 - 2012-02-25 00:23:05 UTC
- Logis on killmails please
- Clone tiers/lost SP would be cool
- It would be nice to see the insurance type/tier purchased on the ship or the amount the pilot receives from insurance when it explodes to see how much isk the pilot truly lost for losing that ship.
Sally Seashells
Space Farm Inc.
#56 - 2012-02-25 00:46:41 UTC
i think it would be interesting to see damage resisted (my tank is uber, except when they use thermal), ewar effects applied at time of kill, standings between assailants and victim.
Wukulo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2012-02-25 02:01:55 UTC
# of shots fired per party

time to lock

distance from target at time of kill

killer's ship status at time of kill. IE it's shields/armor/structure/cap

# of drones controlled by killer

friendly logi actually getting some damned credit

Posted on main because I'm not a coward like the rest of you.
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#58 - 2012-02-25 21:44:44 UTC
I'd be happy with just X,Y,Z coordinates

~
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#59 - 2012-02-25 21:46:31 UTC
OH also SP lost on clones (if applicable)

~
Vile EnEon
Breast Augmentation Charity Society
#60 - 2012-02-26 16:09:14 UTC
Quote:
Location
The one "more data" thing i can see:
It would be awesome to be able to know where someone was in the system when he died.



This, knowing where or near which celestial a fight took place would be very useful.

IF a pilot likes to play station games, or fight near gates, or only gets kills in dead space pockets is all information that could make for good intel.