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Rid core skills that scare new players

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Macrathleachlainn Lucian
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-02-25 20:38:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Macrathleachlainn Lucian
weapon upgrades

advanced weapon upgrades

electronics

electronic upgrades

spaceship command

gunnery

The only thing these skills do are allow you to fit your ship or unlock skills to train that ARE significant.

Any skill that must be trained by new players in the initial months that do not contribute to -> gameplay <- itself is just going to scare people away.

You did it with learning skills CCP. I am sure you can do it with other skills that do not add to game experience.

The initial months are STILL going to be spent learning support skills the likes of gunnery and engineering where the individual FEELS the improvements in training.
OfBalance
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-02-25 20:40:37 UTC
:slipperyslope:
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#3 - 2012-02-25 20:41:54 UTC
What ?

Suicide ganking V

Can flipping V

Lowsec Gatecamping V

Big smile

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#4 - 2012-02-25 20:44:50 UTC
All those skills are required to fly capitals. they are there for a reason.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Devious Relation
Obsessive Compulsive Disasters
#5 - 2012-02-25 20:45:38 UTC
I fear ive fallen for a trolls trap. but i actualy agree with this!

+1
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-02-25 21:01:49 UTC
I have all those to 5 in this character. Same on my alt. That's a whole lot of SP for refunding, so delicious.

I approve.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-02-25 21:03:27 UTC
Why have skills at all? Let me open a new account, spend $6000, and have my titan right away.
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-02-25 21:14:24 UTC
Learning skills that took over a month to train and had to be trained first were a problem and needed to go.

These skills don't have to be trained to V right away to maintain any kind of optimal skill build and when and in what order to train them is a meaningful choice. They're fine the way they are.

KB Link
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#9 - 2012-02-25 21:28:31 UTC
Feligast wrote:
Why have skills at all? Let me open a new account, spend $6000, and have my titan right away.


You actually can do that. Start account, buy titan pilot off of character bazaar, buy a titan. Good to go. Might be day 3-4 for this but still a pretty good deal I suppose.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-02-25 21:31:44 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Feligast wrote:
Why have skills at all? Let me open a new account, spend $6000, and have my titan right away.


You actually can do that. Start account, buy titan pilot off of character bazaar, buy a titan. Good to go. Might be day 3-4 for this but still a pretty good deal I suppose.


Hassle. And I want MY character name, not his. Remove skills!
Ai Shun
#11 - 2012-02-25 21:37:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ai Shun
Macrathleachlainn Lucian wrote:
weapon upgrades

advanced weapon upgrades

electronics

electronic upgrades

spaceship command

gunnery

The only thing these skills do are allow you to fit your ship or unlock skills to train that ARE significant.

Any skill that must be trained by new players in the initial months that do not contribute to -> gameplay <- itself is just going to scare people away.

You did it with learning skills CCP. I am sure you can do it with other skills that do not add to game experience.

The initial months are STILL going to be spent learning support skills the likes of gunnery and engineering where the individual FEELS the improvements in training.


You made a list of 6 skills you felt should be removed (Presumably from your title and the lack of clarification). Then, in your closing paragraph, you suggested that one of those six should still be learned and pointed out that you could feel the improvement in training.

So see, in the 111 words it took you to write out your idea; you already made a mistake. The whole skill balance is a more complex topic than 111 words. You suddenly make core, game-play skills not-required you need to revisit a lot of dependent skills. You need to check what to handle for refunds and how to deal with any problems. What is the overhead for something that is not entirely necessary?

I don't see that risk and time investment as being worth it. There are better ways for CCP to spend their time. Those skills DO contribute and they act as enablers for other skills. It helps guide a player into understanding the game, understanding the complexity and pushing them towards the concept of planning their characters, their game and so forth. Those are all valuable components of EVE Online.

I don't like the idea, even though the bonus Skill Points would be beneficial.
Macrathleachlainn Lucian
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-02-25 21:40:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Macrathleachlainn Lucian
Quote:
Then, in your closing paragraph, you suggested that one of those six should still be learned and pointed out that you could feel the improvement in training.


Gunnery support skills not the skill gunnery itself which does not DO ANYTHING ELSE except UNLOCK the support skills.

For someone to begin playing and start flying frigates that start becoming more fun to fly each skill they train makes a HUGE difference in trying to recruit a friend to eve.

The outsight of being able to specialize into a cruiser within a considerable amount of (which can still be a long) time instead of someone having to duke it out for FOUR months before they can fly a significant -> CRUISER <- !

Maths.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#13 - 2012-02-25 21:43:18 UTC
Get out.
Macrathleachlainn Lucian
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-02-25 21:48:10 UTC
Quote:
I don't like the idea, even though the bonus Skill Points would be beneficial.


So you would not mind having those skillpoints to issue to other skills that ARE SIGNIFICANT yet you want a new player to train them so he can unlock the good ones.

Excellent point.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#15 - 2012-02-25 21:53:26 UTC
Macrathleachlainn Lucian wrote:
weapon upgrades

advanced weapon upgrades

electronics

electronic upgrades

spaceship command

gunnery

The only thing these skills do are allow you to fit your ship or unlock skills to train that ARE significant.



Hmm - let's see - wepon upgrades IV unlocks T2 weapon upgrades which are optional - you don't need them - you can keep it at WU I and if meta IV is not good enough, just use faction/deadspace/officer gear - you wont need the 5% bonus in that case, because tgese mods use less CPU in the first place.
If you want to train for HACs HICs and AWU, you'll need it at V - but noone forces you to fly a HAC or HIC or train AWU at all.

AWU - well - you need it at V for doomsday operation, siege mods and Marauders - not having it at V ceratinly is a hard blow to noobs.

Electronics unlocks quite a few skills, however anything a noob could possibly want to train is unlocked after electronics IV, which takes about 1-2 days to train.

etc...etc..


Of course I know where you're coming from: Every noob should just instantly have all V skills because vets being able to fit their ships better is sooo unfair.

OTOH, you could grow a pair and undock with anything not fully maxed out or even fitted with *gasp* T1 mods...
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-02-25 21:55:54 UTC
ships that newer players fly generally don't need AWU V, fyi

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Arec Bardwin
#17 - 2012-02-25 21:56:36 UTC
So you want CCP to remove 1/3 of the combat related skills in this game? I think you might be on to something here Big smile
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#18 - 2012-02-25 22:02:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Macrathleachlainn Lucian wrote:
The outsight of being able to specialize into a cruiser within a considerable amount of (which can still be a long) time instead of someone having to duke it out for FOUR months before they can fly a significant -> CRUISER <- !
Good thing they don't have to train for four months before they can fly cruisers.

As for your list:

· Weapon Upgrades: unlocks damage mods at lvl I; T2 damage mods at lvl IV; rank 2 skill that takes a few days at the most to get to where it needs to be for a new player.

· Advanced Weapons Upgrades: is not needed for new players.

· Electronics: comes for free and immediately unlocks sensor boosters, signal enhancers, sensor backup arrays, ship scanners, cargo scanners and survey scanners at lvl I; basic co-processors and T2 scanners at lvl II; rank 1 skill that takes just over a day to train to where it needs to be for a new player.

· Electronic upgrades: unlocks “proper” or more advanced versions of the electronics modules at lvl I; T2 backup sensors at lvl III; T2 co-processors at lvl IV; rank 2 skills that takes a few days at the most to get to where it needs to be for a new player.

· Spaceship command: comes for free and instantly unlocks any skills needed for a new player; rank 1 skill that takes just over a day for a new player once he's not so new any more and wants to use battleships or BCs.

· Gunnery: comes for free and immediately unlocks small guns; unlocks medium guns at lvl III; rank 1 skill that takes just over a day for train to where it needs to be for a new player.

So yeah, no, your list of skills is not consistent with the problem you claim exists. You seem to suffer from must-get-lvl-V-itis — a disease that does more damage to newbies than any set of seemingly obligatory but boring skills could ever do, due to the detrimental and unwise “advice” this unfortunate condition tends to generate towards them.
Serene Repose
#19 - 2012-02-25 22:05:41 UTC
Macrathleachlainn Lucian wrote:
...Any skill that must be trained by new players in the initial months that do not contribute to -> gameplay <- itself is just going to scare people away....

Umm...anyone that easily scared would be better off playing something else anyway. If training something for thirty minutes is spooky, imagine sightseeing with disregard and becoming ensnared by a camp in ones rooky ship! Nay, I say. Let them graze in more pastoral pastures. The sooner the better, according to their cardiologists.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Korsiri
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-02-25 22:06:08 UTC
mm I dunno

I don't agree

First off, I don't think the skills scare off the newbs, I think the game can, and the players, but not the skills required. For instance, you really don't need all those at 5 as already mentioned, plus it starts newbs on the learning curve of how Eve skills actually work... over time, and with no rushing either required or possible.

I think it's better to learn that latter point, that decent skills take time, than to take out the skills, which are useful, and give newbs another step up.

You already start with most of your skills higher than once upon a time. Plus, tutorials... really all the handholding newbs need.

Although if they could make a *decent* tutorial for shipfitting... I'd be so there.

Anyway, I don't see how taking a core of how Eve works away helps newbs, or improves gameplay.
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