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A Guide to Trading (that I found on the interwebs)

Author
Athar Mu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-09-20 08:44:30 UTC
I found this the other day when surfing the interwebs for some advice. It comes in 2 parts as it is too big for one post.

Part 1

Quote:
Here I'm going to teach wannabe traders how to make lots of isk but before you read please make sure you have the following traits before even bothering to attempt throwing billions into the market because once you do this you will have lots of surplus stock sitting in your hangers and if you don't have the patience for trading you will simply burn out and curse me.


  1. Willing to take risks with your isk
  2. An understanding of how real life markets work (to some degree)
    patience (a lot of it, if you can't be arsed to wait 2 - 3 days sometimes for something to sell then this is not for you)
    commitment to log in at least once a day to update orders
    A very aggressive mindset when dealing with competition
    There are 2 ways I trade, one is station or market hub trading and the other is multi region trading.


Station trading I do a very specific method in order to ensure my orders always stay on top and most of all beat the market bots if any are currently operating on the market. I quite simply right click my buy order and update by 1 isk, not 0.01 isk like the bots do, I do not check the market prices constantly i just simply update my orders by 1 isk every 10 minutes or so. This will make your jaw drop at how fast your hanger fills because you are essentially acting like a bot, I can do this for 1 hour at a time while listing to music or what ever, its really a no brainer since I'm doing exactly what the bots are doing except i'm raising by 1 isk to make things easy and fast for for me.

The exact procedure, sort orders with the last modified order at the top, I sort orders by expiry time, then each time I update that order it moves to the bottom of the order list letting me work on the next order and so on. I right click the order, then select modify, then I click just before the decimal and increase by 1 isk and I then press Enter/return key to trigger the OK button... Pressing the return key will confirm the change, this saves clicking and saves lots of frustrating time ******* about with eves UI BUT always always check the field total change before pressing enter, it should be a very small amount, this will prevent accidents and if you don't and **** it up you lose and good day sir, the other traders will thank you kindly for the free isk you gave them...

Yes trading especially in jita is the most riskyest isk making activity in the game, it always has been, if you don't believe me try it for 1 month and then **** up and enter the wrong value and lose a few hundred So be ******* CAREFUL always check and check then click or press, it should warn you if you **** up massively but not always if its within the average price you can still lose a lot of isk by simply not checking.

Another thing I would highly suggest is use a signature at the end of your market orders, that is to say you always end your orders with something like 0.17 or 0.13 this means you can now see your orders at a glance, again this saves lots of time and frustration as you don't play 0.01 isk wars ever. Play the 0.01 isk game is for ******* nubs, raise by 100k raise by 1 mill if you feel confident... But don't play 0.01 isk games because chances are they are not human and will always beat you down, so always update at least 1 isk as it is less of a mind ****. Use the market filters when station trading, you do not need to see **** 20 jumps away, limit your market results by jump range, simply type in between 0 jumps and 0 jumps which will limit it to the system.
Athar Mu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-09-20 08:46:28 UTC
Part 2

Quote:
Multi region trading

Before I explain this I will explain how to find the most profitable goods and fastest moving ones which is also important if you want to make a lot of isk in a short amount of time during station trading. To find the real super trades is easy, open any items prices history and switch to table view, now sort it by date with the most recent date ei today at the top. Next take the first 5 or 7 orders volume after the first order at the top, the first order is always a delay on todays orders and you are not interested in this as much since the current price has not yet closed and the real average is not showing, remember I did say you need to know a little about real markets to get ahead?

Ok so you have like 5 values in volume over the last 5 days before the current present day, now add them all up to total and divide by 5 and then you have the real average volume over 5 the last 5 days, then comes the tricky part because its bigger numbers now you will work with decimal points and all and can become quite a head ache but i'm not going to give you this data you must find it your self (and i'm sorry) this is call market research and if done right will amaze you. It will when you use it in a hub like jita as hundreds of units of x item floods into your hanger to sell in a hub like jita on a busy sunday night when you also use the other strategy I described earlier, trust me

OK, I'm obviously not good at getting to the point but here we go, take the last five trades less the current days trades volume and add it up, if you know how to use a calculator please do store that value to the memory if not ******* learn how too its really not hard, otherwise write it to a piece of paper or what ever. Now take the last 5 averages and add those up, then divide those by 5 obviously to get a true average over 5 days instead of the daily average given by the eve client. If you want to be fast take the first 5 digits or the first 6 depending on the isk in millions or billions and then multiply that value by adding trailing zeros. I don't want to teach people how to do math and tbh I suck at it but I understand this and must make it clear as possible. You can use the daily average for extra speed if you're trying to find many items in a short time (in a hurry) to trade with but its much better you do it right!

Now you will have 2 values the average price over 5 days and total volume over 5 days, simply multiply those values... The value you get is the total isk value over the last 5 days and this is very important but not the only thing important. This value is useless to an untrained trader so here we go, if you have lots of isk like 5 bill and upwards it will be best to only trade in items that only have at least 1 billion isk moving through them every day. So that is to say you control that market for 1 day alone at least 1 billion isk will move through your wallet each day you control that item, so now you are learning from me how markets are working You could totally buy lots of **** but it won't ******* move for like a month if you're really unlucky and bought a ton of mission loot that no one is interested in.

So now comes the other factors, open that items price history in graph mode, now you must look at the profit margin, the wider the donchian channel which is the red coloured bar the better. That's the easy way to do it but i'll teach you the more accurate way, go back to the table view, add up all the lowest (column LOW) sell or buy prices over 5 days divide by 5 store value somewhere, now take all the High prices add up divide by 5 and then obviously work out the percentage in difference to get the profit margin. The other important thing to look at is total market orders vs volume or quantity. These are things a trader just has to learn and get use to but if you play trader it will come naturally after 1 month so long as you know the basics.

Now multi region trading takes like 10 - 20 of your best researched items and you use the order signature to distinguish between regions so you don't get confused with orders between regions.. For instance I use 0.12 for forge 0.13 for lonetrek and 0.14 or citidel (spelling) and I fly between regions and buy and sell the same items but they all have a different signature so in my orders list i can instantly see what region they are in so know which ones to update and of coarse i give them the same sigs. You need to do this if you use one character for trading between many regions since there is no region column in orders, CCP made it this way to make it harder but if you have a brain you can invent ways to distinguish the orders between regions.


For now that is it I might add more if I think of things which I'm sure I missed out like 50% of it but you follow my ways you will always make isk and it will be as easy as changing some numbers. This you will see is the only way to make isk in eve, just ask the guys with over 3 trillion what they did... I'm just a lazy ****** though but currently I'm trying not to be because I have bigger plans for gaining isk and that is simply robbing people of it. Do not mouth this **** around with anyone especially the 1 isk trick with out checking market data trick, that is my most secret **** until now. It would likely cause CCP to increase the time limits on updating orders, it could cause great game breaking **** if everyone knew how to abuse it...

Also some last things when updating orders when station hub trading with my method check at least every umm when ever you like really but do check because sometimes people out bid you by 100k or something but at least with my method you always beat the bots.


Maybe it will be of some use to someone though this dude sounds a bit odd so might not be the best advice.
Alaik
Lucifer's Hammer
A Band Apart.
#3 - 2011-09-20 11:54:00 UTC
Perhaps it would be fine, if I could be bothered to read through it and mentally insert more punctuation. =/
Lauren Hellfury
Super Happy Awesome Fun Times
#4 - 2011-09-20 13:21:20 UTC
Reading it won't help you, it's full of stupid crap that should be ignored.

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Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-09-20 15:56:53 UTC
Sometimes, what is found on the interwebs is best left on the interwebs...
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-09-21 08:10:27 UTC
nice attribution you have there...

but you found it "on the interwebs" so you can obviously copy it everywhere Roll
beor oranes
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2011-09-24 00:25:44 UTC
HAHA I know where this came from...though I believe he is currently serving a forum ban for personal insults so he might not be able to vent his frustration for awhile.
Atima
Inevitable Outcome
E.C.H.O
#8 - 2011-09-24 14:13:12 UTC
Lauren Hellfury wrote:
Reading it won't help you, it's full of stupid crap that should be ignored.